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Sorry Packer fans

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Re: Sorry Packer fans

Postby SeaWolf » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:17 pm

moochman wrote:A good point made by some talking head on the tube today was to imagine if Jennings had a Seahawk uniform on. Would he have been awarded the TD and would there have been any second guessing? Pure truth.


Very true. Had Seattle been robbed of a win, it would not have made national news other than ESPN or NFL Network. Most people believed Green Bay would win. To rob the storied history of Green Bay is wrong, but to rob Seattle, who cares.
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Re: Sorry Packer fans

Postby joejlitz » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:27 pm

deluxe_247 wrote:at one point tate took the hand that you could clearly see off the ball and then went back onto it while jennings had it secured through the entirety. that means jennings had complete possession first .

Can you post a pic of this part?
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Re: Sorry Packer fans

Postby moochman » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:39 pm

SeaWolf wrote:
moochman wrote:A good point made by some talking head on the tube today was to imagine if Jennings had a Seahawk uniform on. Would he have been awarded the TD and would there have been any second guessing? Pure truth.


Very true. Had Seattle been robbed of a win, it would not have made national news other than ESPN or NFL Network. Most people believed Green Bay would win. To rob the storied history of Green Bay is wrong, but to rob Seattle, who cares.


missing the point just a bit, don't ya think? though another point is revealed. Home teams get many calls go against them?
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Re: Sorry Packer fans

Postby deluxe_247 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:55 pm

joejlitz wrote:
deluxe_247 wrote:at one point tate took the hand that you could clearly see off the ball and then went back onto it while jennings had it secured through the entirety. that means jennings had complete possession first .

Can you post a pic of this part?



umm i cant really find any pics of it frame by frame. i just watched videos of it on youtube where they are on sportscenter and they play the catch in slowmo and you can clearly see it.

this is the closest pic i found but you cant see much as its so grainy. it is at the point where his hand is starting to come off the ball, his right arm:

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Re: Sorry Packer fans

Postby Dawinner127 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:03 pm

They showed a sports science on it on ESPN showing that Jennings had 2 hands on the ball then a Packers player had a third hand on it and Tate got his left arm in there to make it 4 hands on the ball, but Tate's other hand was wrapped on the outside of Jennings' wrist. They zoomed in on this during the sports science. And then as they came down Tate had gotten his other hand on the ball.
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Re: Sorry Packer fans

Postby joejlitz » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:11 pm

deluxe_247 wrote:
joejlitz wrote:
deluxe_247 wrote:at one point tate took the hand that you could clearly see off the ball and then went back onto it while jennings had it secured through the entirety. that means jennings had complete possession first .

Can you post a pic of this part?



umm i cant really find any pics of it frame by frame. i just watched videos of it on youtube where they are on sportscenter and they play the catch in slowmo and you can clearly see it.

this is the closest pic i found but you cant see much as its so grainy. it is at the point where his hand is starting to come off the ball, his right arm:

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Good enough. Thanks, D.

My point is that this is not an interception. Nor is it a catch. The play is not complete at this point. It doesnt become complete until the players hit the ground and someone maintains possession "through the complete act of possessing the ball" or some words to that effect. We've all watched enough football to know when a play is deemed over on a catch in the end zone.

Dawinner says that ESPN sport science shows Tate got his second hand back on the ball as he was coming back down.
So I still ask that when they hit the ground and they both are still fighting for the ball, each with some measure of control, and then the play is officially over, and they each control a portion of the ball, how is it NOT simultaneous possession?
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Re: Sorry Packer fans

Postby petedog9 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:32 am

Great analysis fellas and I don't mind hearing the other side Joe. In fact, I love it...... This is what makes this forum tick for me... ;-D All I can tell you is that we can alalyze every frame of this but the biggest determining factor for me is my gut. The second I saw the play and the more replays I saw of the play. My gut just burned of an injustice. In my heart and my gut, and with everything I have learned in all my years of watching football, it simply wasnt the right call.

I understand the letter of the law of the game of football and in a way Joe I can see where you stand. However, I am still a guy who yells profanities at the TV when I see a GET SOME style of hit that just blows somebody up. Only to see a flag and a 15 yard penlty, followed by a fine. A clean yet hard hit, now gets the flag. That kills me a little each time. Because as watching Nascar is to wrecks. I am allured to the game by amazing physical plays.

I also can tell you that if this is what it took to end the Referee holdout, then in a way, I m happy it happenned. Because I want the focus of September 27-30 to be about Football and nothing but FOOTBALL! The way we know and love it.

Now if I can just get my awesomely big brand named but way underacheiving fantasy team to get me out of my 1-2 hole. All will be right in the world... I ain't kidding neither but that's a topic for another thread... :~(
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Re: Sorry Packer fans

Postby Cowboys 4 life » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:38 am

My take on it and I had GB defense in my money league (and int would have still got me a loss by 3 points) and a non int helps me win in my Dynasty league to stay 1 game ahead of JoejLitz :-D

I saw Jennings clearly get the ball in the air after the offensive PI but it appears to me as if Tate somehow gets 2 hands on the ball on the way down and for a split second tries to rip it out making it appear as if it was a duel possession right as they land. Another split second and Jennings tugs back to gain possession as they are on the ground. The simultaneous possession makes you think its a TD according to rules but the keep possession all they way through makes it appear as an int? Im baffled. 2 rules are sort of conflicting one another her.

I dont think the refs were that far off given they both had possession as they hit the turf I just think they forgot the must keep possession part of the equation. Therefore its an int in my book.

The keep possession all the way through the fall rule is weird because a catch in between the goal lines is different that a catch beyond the goal line.
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Re: Sorry Packer fans

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:50 am

My take:

There is one sentence that gets missed a lot but is entirely relevant here.

"It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control". This is EXACTLy what happened in this case; Jennings initially had control of the ball. Tate came in and managed to get 2 hands on the ball before Jennings had possesion, but after he had control (huge idfferene here).

This difference makes it a pick in my mind. However, the NFL did get one thing right here, the simultaneous catch call was not reviewable and hence, the call on the field had to stand because the referees could only review to make sure both players were in bound/ball didn't hit the ground.
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Re: Sorry Packer fans

Postby joejlitz » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:42 am

Cowboys 4 life wrote:My take on it and I had GB defense in my money league (and int would have still got me a loss by 3 points) and a non int helps me win in my Dynasty league to stay 1 game ahead of JoejLitz :-D.

:-b

Buffalo Bills - that make sense. my only issue is that we have to go back to how the NFL defines "control." can you have control without having a completed catch? I'm starting to think that you can. I can think of a couple examples where a receiver has control but his feet are not inbounds or maybe he has control but fails to make a football move before the ball hits the ground.

If the NFL defines control anywhere and we can analyze that, then I think that is the key to why this is not a simultaneous catch and therefore an interception.
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