Is there a lawyer in the house? - Fantasy Football Cafe 2014 Fantasy Football Cafe


Return to Football Talk

Is there a lawyer in the house?

Moderator: Football Moderators

Is there a lawyer in the house?

Postby Billy joe » Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:35 pm

Which method is more fair and why?

Seeding by record...

Div. Winner 1 (11-3) v.
Div. Winner 3 (6-8)
AND
Div. Winner 2 (10-4) v.
Wild-card (9-5)

Seeding by division winner...

Div. Winner 1 (11-3) v.
Wild-card (9-5)
AND
Div. Winner 2 (10-4) v.
Div. Winner 3 (6-8)
Billy joe Beginner
Monday Morning Quarterback


Posts: 4
Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: China Town

Postby altproject » Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:46 pm

i'm not a lawyer, but traditionally, the NFL sets the highest seeded team against the lowest. generally, division winners are given higher seeds over wildcards. therefore, #2 is the "most fair" way of doing it -- where the best division winner plays the wildcard.

i know what you're thinking... the 6-8 division winner is a lesser team than the wildcard, so shouldn't the best division winner get to play them instead? what makes it fair is not looking at it from the #1 division winner's point of view. look at it from the #3 division winner's point of view (the 6-8 guy). he won his division and therefore he deserves the #3 seed. that is the main reason for having divisions and the incentive behind winning them. therefore, the wildcard has to placed #4 by process of elimination. it ends up to be a tougher matchup for the #1 division winner... but that's the luck of the draw.
20 Team League | 11-3 | 5th Place
--------------------------------------------
Q: Kitna, Flutie
R: Henry, Portis, T. Jones, Rudi, Griffin, Burns
W: Chambers, Ward
T: Shockey
K: Elling
D: Bills
altproject
Defensive Assistant
Defensive Assistant

User avatar

Posts: 429
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Postby Guest » Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:58 pm

Thanks alot for your input.

However I'm going to throw out your argument that "It's the way of the NFL". Only because it assumes that the NFL seeding is as fair as it can possibly be.

So why should the 3rd division winner be rewarded for being in the worst division over the 1st division winner being rewarded for having the best record? Sounds to me like one of them earned it and the other didn't.
Guest


Home Cafe: Football
Friendliness: %

Postby Billy joe » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:00 pm

Me^
Billy joe Beginner
Monday Morning Quarterback


Posts: 4
Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: China Town

Postby altproject » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:07 pm

it all depends on what the expectation is that comes with a division crown. i mean, if i'm an owner and i'm playing in a league that has multiple divisions, one of the first things i'll want to know is "what do i get for winning my division?"

do i get extra money? do i get a playoff bye? do i get a higher seed? with any kind of sport or game, if you win a division, you usually get something for it -- that's where the "earning" part comes in. i know that guy is 6-8 and it's unfortunate that his division is obviously weak, but this argument goes on every year in the NFL too. the old NFC central (green bay, minnesota, detroit, chicago) used to always turn out 8-8 division winners. but it wasn't necessarily because that division was the weakest -- some years, it was because that division was the strongest and all the teams in it beat the hell out of each other.

for me, if a league wants to base playoff seedings on record alone, then there's really no reason to have divisions. just put all the teams in one big division and let them all go at each other evenly. once teams are divided up into divisions though, i think that implies that there's some kind of reward for winning yours. and usually, that's a higher seed. in my league, my record's 11-3 but i'm a wildcard that's playing against an 8-6 divison winner. i have three more wins than him, but he's a 4 seed and i'm a 5. just the way it works out sometimes...
Last edited by altproject on Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
20 Team League | 11-3 | 5th Place
--------------------------------------------
Q: Kitna, Flutie
R: Henry, Portis, T. Jones, Rudi, Griffin, Burns
W: Chambers, Ward
T: Shockey
K: Elling
D: Bills
altproject
Defensive Assistant
Defensive Assistant

User avatar

Posts: 429
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Postby TTTBone » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:08 pm

Well, if you're going to have divisions in your fantasy league, you have to go with option #2 where the top seed plays the wildcard (regardless of the wildcard's record). Divisions in fantasy football, as in the NFL, are arbitrarily set, regardless of the strength of individual teams. If you want to have playoff matchups set solely on record, then there is absolutely no reason to have divisions in your league. Since there apparently are divisions in your league, you have to go with option #2, seeded by division winner.
Image
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
-Benjamin Franklin
TTTBone
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe RankerPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 4481
(Past Year: 8)
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby M_Zimm_ffc » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:15 pm

If you do number one you might as well use the BCS. It is not fair to the teams that are in a tougher division. I agree with the others here.
M_Zimm_ffc
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

Cafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 5603
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby Billy joe » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:20 pm

"for me, if a league wants to base playoff seedings on record alone, then there's really no reason to have divisions. just put all the teams in one big division and let them all go at each other evenly. once teams are divided up into divisions though, i think that implies that there's some kind of reward for winning yours. "

There is one flaw in your argument. Division winner 3 was rewarded with a playoff spot. Imagine another team missed the wild-card by one spot with a record of 8-4. In your scenario division winner #3 wouldn't even be in the playoffs.

Back to the original question, which is actually more fair?
Billy joe Beginner
Monday Morning Quarterback


Posts: 4
Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: China Town

Postby altproject » Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:15 pm

Billy joe wrote:There is one flaw in your argument. Division winner 3 was rewarded with a playoff spot. Imagine another team missed the wild-card by one spot with a record of 8-4. In your scenario division winner #3 wouldn't even be in the playoffs. Back to the original question, which is actually more fair?


oh, there's no doubt that the 6-8 wouldn't make the playoffs if it wasn't for the fact that he won his division. i'm not arguing that. i'm sure there are some 7-7 teams out there that didn't get a wildcard spot that are missing the playoffs altogether.

but that's the byproduct of having divisions. that's what divisons do. forget about looking at the overall records for a second... all you can look at is "who won each division". then you assign wildcards. and that's what you've got.

you're asking what's more fair -- do you mean by that, "what's more fair: divisions vs. no divisions"? obviously, no divisons is more fair because all teams are considered by their record evenly. but divisions are much more exciting and i prefer them over a flat, single division league.
20 Team League | 11-3 | 5th Place
--------------------------------------------
Q: Kitna, Flutie
R: Henry, Portis, T. Jones, Rudi, Griffin, Burns
W: Chambers, Ward
T: Shockey
K: Elling
D: Bills
altproject
Defensive Assistant
Defensive Assistant

User avatar

Posts: 429
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Postby mikey » Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:02 pm

Be careful what you wish for. I am a lawyer, not that this fact in of itself makes my opinion any more valid (in fact, you might want to discredit my opinion based on the fact that I was dumb enough to allow myself to go to law school).

Enough with the preamble. I have to agree with everyone else. Seeding by division winner seems the way to go. While you can make a pretty decent argument for seeding by record, doing so makes having divisions seem moot. The scenario you outline sucks for "Div. Winner 1" who has the misfortune of drawing the tougher opponent, but that's kinda the way it goes (how's that for legal reasoning).

Good luck.
mikey
Offensive Coordinator
Offensive Coordinator

User avatar

Posts: 837
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Next

Return to Football Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Start & Sit Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2014 NFL season kicks off in 16:50 hours
(and 34 days)
2014 NFL Schedule


  • Fantasy Football
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact