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League Issue - Opinions please!!!

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League Issue - Opinions please!!!

Postby EagleEye7 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:21 pm

Hello,

I have a league issue in regards to a trade that has been reversed I would like some opinions on as to how you would have solved this in your league. The more seasoned of a vet you are, the more times you have prob seen this issue -- Therefore, the more I would like to hear from you. If you could please comment on 1) The issue, 2) The trade itself and whether you feel it was one sided or mutually beneficial, and 3) Any additional comments/suggestions you may have.

My background: I am well experienced in both fantasy football and basketball. I am commissioner of a standard league this year, and a member of a deep league where this issue has occurred. I follow the actual sports aside from fantasy. I've played both basketball & baseball in leagues growing up for over a decade. AND as someone who is business oriented, have a keen sense of business ethics (yes, I look at a fantasy trade with similar values as a business deal).

Trade Offered:

I send:
-QB Andrew Luck
-RB Ryan Mathews
-DT CJ Mosely

I receive:
-RB Trent Richardson
-DT Vince Wilfork
-CB Antonio Cromartie

My perception of the trade ... I am now thru my byes, am ranked 6 of 12 (#2 in my division), which currently has me in line for playoffs. I had Stafford starting to pick it up in the 2nd half of the season and decided to sell high on Luck before trade deadline, and decided to seek a team in dire need of a decent QB. Opposing team was more stacked on offensive positions with the exception of a QB, and also had #6 Trent Richardson on his bench. I saw this as an opportunity to improve his QB, improve my RB & DT positions which both needed serious help if I were to take 1st, but to be fair replaced those spots on his roster with Mathews & Mosely. Not to mention, we all know where Ryan Mathews ranks when healthy. I was not shocked he accepted this trade as it was mutually beneficial (if anything, in my eyes I saw it more beneficial to him).

Issue:

12 hours after the trade was accepted, I get an email. Owner did not mean to hit accept trade and therefore it was declined by a League Commissioner Veto. Now ... Aside from the fact that ESPN is extremely full-proof from allowing this to happen, I find it hard to believe he selected 'Click here if you would like to accept this trade' and then AGAIN 'Click here to finalize trade offer'. After all that, he STILL got a confirmation on the page. It posted as a pending review. And everyone in the league received an email the trade was processed ... How, after all that, would it take 12 hours for you to realize you made a mistake?

Now, if there was an instant post or email from him saying 'Whoops didn't mean to do that, please reverse' ... Then no problem. But 12 hours after the fact after numerous other members had commented to him about it (80% in this league are family related btw), it sounded like buyers remorse to me, maybe even a bit of advising and collusion by the more experienced players who prob saw the trade as a threat to them by enabling a playoff contender, as opposed to him who would be fighting to make playoffs.

My opinion:

1) If this were in any way unfair, it should have been left to a majority vote by all members. A commissioners job is to oversee issues, not decide them. When I commission, I take majority votes for every major decision effecting our players.

2) To say a wrong button was clicked, when really the story keeps changing and I later find some thought it was unfair equates to cheating in my book. Esp when you deceive people to achieve something for a completely different purpose that most likely works to your favor.

Result:

I challenged this and spoke my logical opinion to both the commissioner & team owner who broke the trade. Today, I woke up to an email saying 'I am done playing games' and my team was deleted and the league made private. This was a $100 buy-in (luckily I had not paid yet, as it was a friend/family league that nobody was worried about collecting right away). My team has not only been deleted, but a friend in the league said he still expects me to pay my $100 dues. If these were randoms, no worries -- move on. But this involves one of my best friends and his family and is now causing problems & tense relationships outside of the league, which I find to be ridiculous.

COMMENTS PLEASE!!!
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Re: League Issue - Opinions please!!!

Postby mjedwards409 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:43 pm

Wow. I don't think it is important how mutually beneficial the trade was. It doesnt seem to be about that. I think its more about how he said he accidentally clicked the button, when clearly that wasn't the case. Calmly stating your case was all you can do.

Easier said than done, but I'd laugh right in their face if my team was deleted and I was told I was still expected to play. Even if they are friends/family, you refusing to pay isn't even close to how they are acting trying to get you to pay for a league you have no chance of winning anything back in.

Just as a side note, I HATE how people always want to veto everything. There is no such thing as a 100% equal value trade. Its all perception and situational. Unless it is Arian Foster for Taiwan Jones, a veto shouldn't even be considered. IMO, if you can even make a case as to why you made a trade, it should not be vetoed. GL!
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Re: League Issue - Opinions please!!!

Postby EagleEye7 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:54 pm

Thank you for your opinion MJEdwards!

I agree completely. While there were so many various issues at hand to be pissed about, rather than sounding like a ranting mad man and going off about every little detail, I simply focused on the more important facts. Why this should have been discussed with the league, or individuals involved AT THE VERY LEAST to make sure it was handled right. To say, okay cousin, I got your back and shaft me in the process made no sense.

As for the trade. I am always looking for fair value and benefiting both teams. I frequently have people pickup FA guys and try to trade them to me for my starters, but I think that is disgraceful and would never do that myself. If I had any malicious intent here and was secretly trying to screw him over, there would have been no problem or disappointment on my end. When I offer something fair, maybe even over extending myself in value -- For that to happen in return is inexcusable.

Any other opinions anyone???
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Re: League Issue - Opinions please!!!

Postby shawngee03 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:08 pm

i dont think you are going to find anyone on this site have any other opinions other that teh one already expressed. if everything you have said is the truth and there is no otehr side to it, then you are not in teh worng at all

you shoudl not pay if your team is locked...thats just silly. each league has rules for vetos that are set up at the beginning of the season...and they shoudlbe followed to avoid this type of situation. liek ive said on multipel other posts here...doing something like this opens the commish up for future "you did it before, why dont you do it now" type of situations. just follow teh rules and everybody will be happy

your commish is not a strong leader, or just too clueless to see how is actions are not what is best for the league

i have been commish of 2 pay leagues for probably 5 years now, have never vetoed a trade, and have never had a problem. i figure if it ever comes down to me having to veto a trade, i shouldnt be in that league with those players as that means they are cheating. and i dont associate myself with bad people
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Re: League Issue - Opinions please!!!

Postby EagleEye7 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:27 pm

Amen to that! Thank you for your opinions. I guess with all the ganging up I have felt over this issue -- I just needed to at least hear it from someone outside of the circle if I am just crazy & over reacting or if I am being humble & honest just looking for a truthful answer and the best solution. I was also curious as to those who have experience in deep leagues feel that trade was in any way unfair.

I think the overall consensus here is good trade, bad commissioner, & never again!

If anyone disagrees, please comment. Always willing to be a devils advocate!
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Re: League Issue - Opinions please!!!

Postby murphysxm » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:26 pm

I assume there is a portion of this story not being told and that your emails/complaints probably had some emotion in them, however locking an invested owner out of a league is just stupid. It throws the competitive balance off for the other owners and alienates your friendship. The trade was fair, and he probably did get buyers remorse, but I have accepted to many trades on accident to rule out honest mistake.
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Re: League Issue - Opinions please!!!

Postby EagleEye7 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:43 pm

by murphysxm » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:26 pm
I assume there is a portion of this story not being told and that your emails/complaints probably had some emotion in them, however locking an invested owner out of a league is just stupid. It throws the competitive balance off for the other owners and alienates your friendship. The trade was fair, and he probably did get buyers remorse, but I have accepted to many trades on accident to rule out honest mistake.


I can understand your assumption that things got a bit more heated/emotional than what was stated. To be honest, I really did post that in the most unbias format I could. Could I have been a bit calmer about the matter with the individuals I addressed? Yes. However, when someone is most likely cheating and you are the one getting the shaft, you try to calmly investigate, get answers, and portray your opinion -- It is hard to refrain from emotion when the only response is a dead-end response that does not actually answer my question, an unfair resolution, and being told to just deal with it and move on.

As I made it clear to others, if I had any intent of taking advantage, I would not have the disappointment I currently have. It would have been a 'oh darn' moment where I thought I could have gotten away with a sweet deal but didn't. But when I am obviously being lied to and strong-armed to just shut up and forget it, while family/friends of the league manager are benefiting from it, then the right decision was not made.

Like many others on this site, I have never seen a veto. It has never been necessary. And for this to fall under the decision to veto, most would agree this does not bode well.

The only neutral thing I can say that would have prevented this issue, is a protocol determined preseason on how to handle these issues should they come about. Included, should be a time limit to where you can claim a mis-click. 12 minutes? Sure, why not! 12 hours? Sorry, but you're either a liar or an idiot who does not act with attention to detail and should be forced to pay the price.
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Re: League Issue - Opinions please!!!

Postby murphysxm » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:51 pm

EagleEye7 wrote:I can understand your assumption that things got a bit more heated/emotional than what was stated. To be honest, I really did post that in the most unbias format I could.


Wasn't trying cast stones, I would have been emotional as well, just the devil's advocate in me!

You bring up a good point about paying the price for attention to detail I'm going to steal that for my league I commish ;-D
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Re: League Issue - Opinions please!!!

Postby EagleEye7 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:20 pm

Wasn't trying cast stones, I would have been emotional as well, just the devil's advocate in me!

You bring up a good point about paying the price for attention to detail I'm going to steal that for my league I commish ;-D


By all means, please do!

I certainly did not start this forum so that people could feel sorry for me and make me feel better about what happened. I actually joined for the opposite, not seeing where I went wrong here -- Therefore posted to see if anyone else thought I was the one over-stepping in this issue and if this commonly happens in leagues (possibility of accidentally accepting a trade), or if I was right to stand up for my position.

The sad part about this story, is the cheater wins and the honest guy is punished.

So ... to your comment above? I'm glad my problem, while unfortunate, can help improve fantasy football for others and allow a reference for some to learn from others mistakes. I am very passionate about fantasy as well as the sport of football itself, and consider this a win on my part if it can help prevent this from happening to others in the future. Even for the league I am commissioner in, I have already thought of 20+ rules I have never even considered instilling preseason that will now be clearly posted the entire season so protocol is already in place before issues such as this happen.

Thank you for all input thus far, and feel free to keep it going! I am actually interested to hear of other ideas used or that COULD be used in regards to preseason rules that prevents owner-related problems/arguments ... Anyone?
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Re: League Issue - Opinions please!!!

Postby stomperrob » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:13 pm

As others have stated, you are in the right.

As to the future, here's a piece I wrote on use of the veto: viewtopic.php?t=524568

As far as other league rules, one of the best areas to look at is the Draft Room/Draft Rooms inside forum here at the Cafe - you'll find some solid Cafe leagues there (redraft, keeper and dynasty) - if you check out each league you will find that most have fairly extensive league rules posted that will give you a good idea of what should be done: viewforum.php?f=152
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