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Jamaal Charles owners standing on a bridge..... might jump.

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Jamaal Charles owners standing on a bridge..... might jump.

Postby Papa Deuce » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:45 am

As someone who roots for the Eagles, I feel really bad for all Jamaal Charles owners today. If Andy Reid becomes the Chiefs coach, he will take 20% of Charles' value away before day 1 of the 2013 season. Arguably, LeSean McCoy is a better back than Charles, and Andy underutilized him for a few years.

If you have Charles, you might be best trying to trade him ASAP..... but don't jump off any bridges.

And KC fans.... most likely Reid will improve your team, but be prepared for almost unbelievable frustration and consternation as a result of your new head coach..... and go buy a 500 tablet bottle of Tums.
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Re: Jamaal Charles owners standing on a bridge..... might ju

Postby murphysxm » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:09 pm

I actually completely disagree. I think he will be utilized more in the passing game than he ever has, allowing him to showcase his open field ability, and the offense itself will do enough in the passing game that teams can't stack the box as much and will give him running lanes to exploit. I'm excited for him next year.
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Re: Jamaal Charles owners standing on a bridge..... might ju

Postby Papa Deuce » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:47 pm

murphysxm wrote:I actually completely disagree. I think he will be utilized more in the passing game than he ever has, allowing him to showcase his open field ability, and the offense itself will do enough in the passing game that teams can't stack the box as much and will give him running lanes to exploit. I'm excited for him next year.


Well, I watched Andy Reid for 14 years, and he doesn't utilize his RB's to max potential. Charles "may"get a few more catches, but at the expense of many more run attempts, IMO. Andy has been known to have games of 65% pass to run ratio, or worse. Oh, and he gives up on the run at halftime way too often.
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Re: Jamaal Charles owners standing on a bridge..... might ju

Postby murphysxm » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:03 pm

Papa Deuce wrote: and he doesn't utilize his RB's to max potential.


in the last 11 years (that's as far back as my league holds stats) Philly has had a Top 10 RB in PPR formats in 10 of them. Of those 10 years, they had a top 5 RB 8 times. That's a pretty incredible track record of getting elite performance from the RB position, at least in fantasy - which is all I care about.
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Re: Jamaal Charles owners standing on a bridge..... might ju

Postby Papa Deuce » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:20 pm

murphysxm wrote:
Papa Deuce wrote: and he doesn't utilize his RB's to max potential.


in the last 11 years (that's as far back as my league holds stats) Philly has had a Top 10 RB in PPR formats in 10 of them. Of those 10 years, they had a top 5 RB 8 times. That's a pretty incredible track record of getting elite performance from the RB position, at least in fantasy - which is all I care about.



Wait and watch Charles' numbers drop. I wish you could ask LeSean McCoy if he felt he was utilized properly....... There were HALF GAMES where he didn't even get a sniff of the ball. Andy coaches like a coward. At the first sign of trouble he goes away from the run. You can say what you like, and think what you like, but I saw it for 14 years. In fact, I worked in TV and my job was keeping the game on the air while watching the game... I don't miss more than a couple games during those 14 years, other than the ones we didn't air.... and I likely saw most of them, too.
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Re: Jamaal Charles owners standing on a bridge..... might ju

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:31 pm

Count me in the group that thinks Charles will be fine. I don't think this chages his value much at all (maybe a slight negative hit in the next year or two). The RBs in Philly's system tend to end up being as much pass-catchers as true runners anyways. With a guy of Charles' skills, Reid will probably utilize him more on screens, outside runs, and short pass-catches where he can better utilize his speed and quickness. This probably will hurt his consistency, as he'll get less touches so you'll become very reliant on him hitting the 10+yard plays (especially for TDs) in order to have a good game. I'm guessing he'll also drive you nuts, as (from my memory) the matchup didn't seem to alter Andy Reid's gameplan too much. You'll probably see Charles get about 20 touches/game (I'd say about 15 runs and 5 passes), however, because Reid does like abandoning the run, you very well might see some games of 10-12 carries and the occasional 20 carry game.
This does kill any value that Peyton Hillis had as a backup though. Any sniff Charles had at goal-line carries probably goes away (Andy LOVES play-action at the goal line, though he also will throw to the RB in the red zone so Charles' value isn't completely dead down there).

I guess the one legitimate fear one could have of the situation is that if the O-Line struggles mightily in KC, Charles might be more negatively affected by Reid than he would be by other coaches since he won't get the carries volume to pump his stats a bit.

Also, this makes Charles' PPR and non-PPR values distinctly different once again, I think.
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Re: Jamaal Charles owners standing on a bridge..... might ju

Postby moochman » Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:16 pm

Yeah, they should standing on a bridge and jumping... for joy. Not sure we'll ever hear Reid saying "I didn't know he only got 5 carries" If Reid can get a viable QB and build a passing game and the O-line is serviceble Charles stands to benefit greatly.
Not sure how much of the mis-use of Shady was due to the Oline, Vick, over infaturation with passing, or a combination of the three but it would stand to reason that a fresh start with different personal could lead to getting back to basics for Reid.
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Re: Jamaal Charles owners standing on a bridge..... might ju

Postby Papa Deuce » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:36 pm

moochman wrote:Yeah, they should standing on a bridge and jumping... for joy. Not sure we'll ever hear Reid saying "I didn't know he only got 5 carries" If Reid can get a viable QB and build a passing game and the O-line is serviceble Charles stands to benefit greatly.
Not sure how much of the mis-use of Shady was due to the Oline, Vick, over infaturation with passing, or a combination of the three but it would stand to reason that a fresh start with different personal could lead to getting back to basics for Reid.



We shall see.... but I have never seen a coach not use an elite RB like McCoy for entire halves of games. But Reid did it more than once. He will drop the running game 95% - 100% if he gets behind..... and yeah, I know being behind leads to a lot more passing, but Reid will go 100% passing sometimes. We'll see what all you Charles owners think after next season. All I know is I watched Reid for 14 years and he was pretty much the same over all 14 years... I will give you that this year, Vick was bad and hurt, and the O Line was not good. Hell, nothing about the Eagles was good this year. The Eagles won 4 games by a TOTAL of 6 points this year. Tampa Bay was the only legitimate win. The Eagles could easily have gone 1 - 15......

Here, let me clue you in now, so you can be ready for it when it comes out after every loss:

"I've got to do a better job"......... In 14 years, he said that at about 100 post game conferences. Andy can coach a good team just fine..... but he stinks with a bad team..... And he sunk the ship when he brought Vick in..... what a HUGE mistake... Guy had a total of about 8 good games as an Eagle, with most of them in the first year..... So, I wandered off the Charles thing on purpose..... to tell you that IMO, he makes way too many bad decisions....

BTW, do NOT be surprised if KC ends up with Donovan McNabb as QB for 1 - 2 year as a placeholder while the Chiefs develop a young QB. As I mentioned, I worked in TV a LONG time, and I have many close friends who works in different sports jobs, and the rumor is that Andy has already talked to Donovan about this...... and the guy I first heard it from is very well connected as a sports anchor and radio host. Nothing is locked in stone, but discussions have been had..... So imagine, if you will, back to when Andy took over the Eagles and used a very bad Doug Pederson at QB until McNabb was good to go....
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Re: Jamaal Charles owners standing on a bridge..... might ju

Postby moochman » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:02 pm

That's a pretty bold statement, Papa. I don't have the faith in McNabb that Reid may, seems like he would have been hired if GMs thought he had anything left in the tank, no?
Would be pretty big gamble for the Chiefs to place much faith in McNabb. But stranger things have happened.

BTW, don't put too much credence in that whole we won or lost x amount of games by less than a TD garbage. That is a product of a watered down league full of chicken bleep coaches. A close to worthless stat in my book.
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Re: Jamaal Charles owners standing on a bridge..... might ju

Postby Papa Deuce » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:33 am

Not so strange Mooch.... McNabb would only be there ( if it happens at all ) for a year or two. Just to help smooth things over til the real QB of the KC future is ready. let's face it, KC isn't going anywhere for a few years at least. While I think Reid will make KC a better team, he's no savior. Also, since the Eagle's defensive coordinator Jim Johnson died, Andy has just a .500 record as coach.

I hope Reid does well, for KC's sake. They are a team I kind of enjoy, though the Eagles are my main team. But having watched what he has done with RB's over the last 14 years, all I am saying is that I predict a backslide for Charles, not a complete disaster.

BTW, and this is an edit, out of curiosity, I went and checked Reid's record since 2004, the year he went to the SB...... from 2005 and on, he is 65 - 61..... pretty much the definition of mediocrity.
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