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yep

Postby NFLknowitall » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:08 pm

Yo King, McCown is not the answer. They have him on the roster for over 3 years now. He went to Sam Houston for God's sake. He is a solid backup. He does not have the Franchise QB potential that a Eli Manning or Big Ben have. I like McCown, but the Cards will continue to struggle if they rely on average QB's to win last minute mircle game comebacks. Not good.

Arizona has a solid O-line, young back in Shipp, Young receivers in Johnson, Gilmore, Bolden etc... They also have a lot of young talent on Defense that just hasn't been developed. They have had so many #1 picks they just need to make something of it. That's what Green is for and I promise he will do it. It will take a little longer than in Cinci b/c they are in a tough division with St. Louis, Seattle and San Fran. Green is a great coach. 8 playoff seasons in 10 years with 2 NFC Championship appearances all with 7 different QB's. Yep.
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Postby latraffic » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:27 pm

Denny Green NOT in Oakland... :~( :~( :~( :~( :~( :~( :~( :~(
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Re: yep

Postby KingGhidra » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:57 pm

NFLknowitall wrote:Yo King, McCown is not the answer. They have him on the roster for over 3 years now. He went to Sam Houston for God's sake. He is a solid backup. He does not have the Franchise QB potential that a Eli Manning or Big Ben have. I like McCown, but the Cards will continue to struggle if they rely on average QB's to win last minute mircle game comebacks. Not good.

Arizona has a solid O-line, young back in Shipp, Young receivers in Johnson, Gilmore, Bolden etc... They also have a lot of young talent on Defense that just hasn't been developed. They have had so many #1 picks they just need to make something of it. That's what Green is for and I promise he will do it. It will take a little longer than in Cinci b/c they are in a tough division with St. Louis, Seattle and San Fran. Green is a great coach. 8 playoff seasons in 10 years with 2 NFC Championship appearances all with 7 different QB's. Yep.


Actually 2003 was his second year in the league. He didn't start last year since Plummer was still the starter. He most likely WILL be the starter in 2004. Unlike some other marquee positions, QBs come from all over, they don't have to be I-A powerhouses (see Steve McNair@Alcorn St). In fact, there are very few QBs in the league that have the same alma mater as another current QB.
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Postby Purple_Pride » Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:01 pm

KingGhidra wrote:It just seems wasteful to me to draft a QB when they already drafted one in 2002. AZ doesn't know if he is gonna be good or not, so why waste the pick and the money drafting a QB they don't need (yet).


because if Eli is half as good as Peyton he is worth all the draft picks and money that Arizona has to offer.
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Postby KingGhidra » Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:50 pm

Purple_Pride wrote:
KingGhidra wrote:It just seems wasteful to me to draft a QB when they already drafted one in 2002. AZ doesn't know if he is gonna be good or not, so why waste the pick and the money drafting a QB they don't need (yet).


because if Eli is half as good as Peyton he is worth all the draft picks and money that Arizona has to offer.


Trent Dilfer, Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien. These are some of the names of virtual nobody QBs at the start of their respective seasons that have Super Bowl rings. All of them except Brady are virtual nobodies in 2003 (jury is still out on Warner I guess).

Obviously you can win without top tier QB talent taking the snaps. My point is, why spend all that money on Manning IF McCown can lead your team. You won't know that for at least 2 more years. Put all the pieces around your QB and see what he does. If he can't do it, by the time your next QB comes in, the pieces around him are already there and he can be more successful right out of the box.

As far as I remember, AZ has the best salary cap position out of all the teams in the NFL. They could make some huge signings in the offseason to improve any number of positions almost immediately. Better to improve a bunch of positions, than sign a QB with #3 draft money.
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Postby Purple_Pride » Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:55 pm

nobodies can win, absolutely, but Arizona does not have the team that can win without a QB, IMO the biggest impact position is at QB. if you can add just one player to make a difference to your team IMO it should be a QB. Green is an offensive coach and has won alot of games with no body QB's (gannon, salisbury, goerge, etc) but here he has a chance to get a top notch QB, a QB that could turn the franchise around 180 degrees. to do what Peyton did for indi. a QB who played real good for 2 minutes is not worth giving up a chanve to have a QB like Payton. but again this is just my humble opinion.
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Postby dgroundhog_ffc » Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:04 pm

Too bad this hiring can't be retro-active to the Vikings/Cards game. I'm sure with Denny's clock management skills time would have run out before our DB's got burned once again.

I'll drop a brick in my shorts if Denny goes for D. I can see him passing on Manning (dumb, but he might). I don't think Denny really wants a Manning style QB. Denny prefers a QB with running skills. He shipped out a long list of succesful QB's before drafting Daunte. He let Jeff George go in favor of an unproven Daunte. He might be humbled enough over the last couple years to go with the system a bit, and Manning may be too good to pass up if they have the option. If there was a top RB option I think that would be his pick. I can't see Larry Fitz going to Arizona when they have Boldin and a few other young WR's who may improve.

It's a bit early to speculate on the draft for me, I usually wait until the playoffs are over and some combine drills are run, but at this point I'd guess at least 4 of the top 5 picks will most likely be offensive players (2QB's, 1WR, 1TE). I could see Arizona trading down, possibly out of the top 5. They need alot of help, the top non-QB players are not at their biggest need (WR, TE), and I think Denny would prefer Vick's little brother to Manning's little brother.
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Postby Purple_Pride » Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:22 pm

groundhog i chose to argue a few of your points here. culpepper wasa first round draft pick, he wasnt chosen to be a backup forever that is why they chose to go with him, also if you recall goerge's terrible performance in the playoffs, that performance helped make green's decision. and just because he had one Qb who could run does not mean he passes up on QB's who dont run. he brought along Brad Johnson for like 5 years to eventually become their starting QB, he runs the yards yard dash in like.... well he might finish. he also brought in jeff goerge and a washed up imobile cunningham, brought in bubby brister as backup. i dont think he did anythig to show any disdain for pocket passers. he builds a team offence out and he builds the offence Qb out. if manning is on the board he will be a cardinal IMO.
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Postby dgroundhog_ffc » Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:31 pm

When Jeff George was let go, people wondered WTF is Denny doing? My first respons was that maybe it was a sign Denny was committing to Daunte the next year, and I was laughed at back then. His parade of performing QB's before committing to Daunte did cause some fuss at the time. Drafting Daunte over Kearse was questioned at the time, and Daunte looked horrid in limited action as a rookie. Nobody expected Daunte to be the starter at the time. It was a bold move by Denny, and he committed to an unknown in Daunte over proven NFL QB's in Cunningham, Johnson, and George. None gave Denny what he wanted, which was a QB like Daunte.

I think he should take Manning, but I don't think he will. They need so much more than a QB. Eli Manning's value is sky high, and Denny would likely prefer a guy with mobility. I'm just saying I see a possibility they would trade the pick and move down in the draft.
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Postby KingGhidra » Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:38 pm

dgroundhog wrote:I think he should take Manning, but I don't think he will. They need so much more than a QB. Eli Manning's value is sky high, and Denny would likely prefer a guy with mobility. I'm just saying I see a possibility they would trade the pick and move down in the draft.


I think that's the most likely scenario also. The #3 draft spot is too expensive for anything but a OT, QB, WR or RB which Zona probably doesn't need right now.
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