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Portis Holdup

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Postby Free Bagel » Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:48 am

Sure, you could ask for a raise as a sales associate, and they could say no....

But what you couldn't do is so "ok, here's the deal boss, I'm not gonna sell anything else until I get a raise, and if you don't give me a raise, while I'm sitting around on my ass doing nothing, you still have to pay me what I'm currently making." Which is essentially what Portis is doing.

Now, add into the equation that the salesman before you also posted great sales numbers, as did the salesman before him, and the salesman before him, and you wonder how much the product is selling itself in addition to your skills as a salesman...

Also, never did I say he should sign a 10 million dollar contract as a 2nd round pick. But if he wanted to get a 10 million dollar contract in 2/3 years then he should've signed a 2/3 year contract, or stayed the addition year in college, or signed an incentive based contract. But he did none of those, he signed a 4 year deal and now he's stuck with it. Hell, lets all just sign 7 year deals so we're garunteed a minimum amount of money and if we break out we can just holdout...

As for a RB's lifespan, good RB's last longer. Portis is 21, he's got plenty of good years ahead of him.

But if you're so concerned that he'll be out of the league in a few years, take this into account...

Rod Smith, Ed Mccaffrey, Shannon Sharpe will be gone in a few years. The Broncos have to win now. Their defense is already ailing, and 2 of their best defensive players are free agents this offseason and they're having trouble resigning them. By resigning Portis to a huge deal, it is very unlikely they'd be able to resign both, so isn't Portis giving away his only shot at a championship?
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Postby M_Zimm_ffc » Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:08 am

VHawk15 wrote:
M_Zimm wrote:I never said that it would be good for the Broncos to deal him.


If I was the Broncos GM I would trade him.


So if you were a GM, you'd do what was bad for the team?
I did say that but that is not what I quite meant if you read my whole post it was a little unclear what I meant. I don't ahve real great writing abilities so a lot of what I write comes across the wrong way. In another post I cleared it up a little by saying something like I don't think it would be the best thing to do but it wouldn't kill them. Portis is one of the most talented RBs in the league, he could do good almost anywhere but Denver is a system that has any RB do good. Ideally if they can keep him they should keep him but in order to keep him they will probably have to get rid of two of their best LBs who's contracts are up this year. Thier D is already very weak and to lose two of their starting LBs because they have to pay their RB a lot more money. If they are able to give him an increase without losing any of their better defensive players they should.
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Postby dihall » Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:16 am

I have to agree with Bagel in theory. I think they are all paid too much and they absolutely whine too much for getting paid "too little". If people who actually deserve to be paid these large sums of money, it would seem a little more fair. HOWEVER...as long as people continue to watch and pay to go see or purchase NFL extras on their satellite, the outrageous pay will continue. It's the same as a movie, television or musical star. People are willing to pay whatever it takes for a little entertainment. I agree that Portis is a fantastic player and deserves to be well paid, but where does the line get drawn? Bottom line is, like the majority of you who think he deserves this money, he will get paid and most likely by the Broncos. It's just the way people look at certain careers. Sad, but true!
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Postby KingGhidra » Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:23 am

Free Bagel wrote:Rod Smith, Ed Mccaffrey, Shannon Sharpe will be gone in a few years. The Broncos have to win now.

So not keeping their youngest best offensive star happy is the way to win now?

Their defense is already ailing, and 2 of their best defensive players are free agents this offseason and they're having trouble resigning them. By resigning Portis to a huge deal, it is very unlikely they'd be able to resign both, so isn't Portis giving away his only shot at a championship?


If a team wants to sign their stars, they can. 90% of the time they are willing to make a deal to stay with a good promising team.

How's this for a scenario. If you're one of the 2 defensive free agents for Denver this offseason, and you see the Broncos won't pay Portis what he's worth, would YOU want to stay with Denver?

Give the kid an extension and pay him what he's worth. They got two years of A production for a cheap price. Time for him to get his just reward.
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Postby KnightWhoSaysNi » Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:26 am

I think I agree with Zimm and Bagel here - reading about the Broncos running back legacy makes me think of the Coors Field phenomenon in baseball; the thin "mile high" air at that ballpark essentially makes it a hitter's paradise and artificially inflates their batting statistics. I know there have been quite a few players who hit for high averages and a ton of home runs at Colorado, later signed lucrative contracts elsewhere and then went on to have crummy seasons once they no longer had Coors Field as their home. The analogy may not be 100% appropriate, but there is certainly something that can be said about an organization that can turn Gary into a 1000 yard rusher.

Portis signed a contract ... of course he can ask for more money, and I do think he deserves it; but I don't think he should hold out ... if he can't renegotiate, he should honor his contract and when his four years are up then he can tell the Broncos to shove off if he wants - but not before then.


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Postby M_Zimm_ffc » Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:55 am

KingGhidra wrote:
Free Bagel wrote:Rod Smith, Ed Mccaffrey, Shannon Sharpe will be gone in a few years. The Broncos have to win now.

So not keeping their youngest best offensive star happy is the way to win now?

Their defense is already ailing, and 2 of their best defensive players are free agents this offseason and they're having trouble resigning them. By resigning Portis to a huge deal, it is very unlikely they'd be able to resign both, so isn't Portis giving away his only shot at a championship?


If a team wants to sign their stars, they can. 90% of the time they are willing to make a deal to stay with a good promising team.

How's this for a scenario. If you're one of the 2 defensive free agents for Denver this offseason, and you see the Broncos won't pay Portis what he's worth, would YOU want to stay with Denver?

Give the kid an extension and pay him what he's worth. They got two years of A production for a cheap price. Time for him to get his just reward.

Yes, to an extent, but if you go only by that theory then why is there so much parrity in the league? How come there aren't very many great dynasties right now? If you go by that theory then why aren't a lot of the best players on one team? The truth is that most people in the NFL just want as much money as they can get. They will take a little less money if they are playing for a team that has a chance to win it all but this is a world where people love money. Why did Takeo Spikes stay with the Bengals so long? He got more money there. If a player wants to yes, he can ultimitely choose where he plays but most want more money. I don't know what the Broncos LBs are going to do but most likely if they can get a lot more money elsewhere, even Arizona they will.
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Postby Free Bagel » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:09 am

KingGhidra wrote:So not keeping their youngest best offensive star happy is the way to win now?


Get over the happy bit already. $3 million to play football for 4 years would make anyone happy, he's happy. Signing your players to contracts and managing your cap is the way to win, how are you supposed to do that when everytime a kid has a good year they holdout for more money that costs you a key player at another position. Giving someone that's already on your team more money at the expense of losing a key player on an already weak defence is not the way to win.


KingGhidra wrote:How's this for a scenario. If you're one of the 2 defensive free agents for Denver this offseason, and you see the Broncos won't pay Portis what he's worth, would YOU want to stay with Denver?


The difference here is that Wilson and Gold's contracts have expired, so they'll get what they're worth. Portis' contract hasn't. I don't recall Ian Gold being a highly touted college player, so he did his time in the NFL on a rookie contract, played it out, and now is getting his just deserts. If portis didn't want $3 million dollars over 4 years, then he shouldn't have written his name on the little dotted line.

It's retarded that if a player wants a new contract, he can completely terminate his services and still get paid, while if a team wants to cut a player, they still have to pay him unless someone else picks up his deal.
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Postby moochman » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:48 am

Zimm and Bagel I couldn't disagree more with your naive thoughts on this issue. Yes the Broncos seem to be able to plug in any back and get production, but they aren't stupid enough to think that the next guy will be just as good. Wells do run dry and it isn't just the system as much as it is finding the RBs with talent. They found him and his name is Clinton.
Understand that we are talking about pro athletes, not ordinary people. They have been living with adifferent set of rules since they were 12. Contracts should be honored and players should be happy making 2 mil over 4 years. Portis should be able to renegotiate his contract and get what he deserves. Gas should also be 30 cents a gallon and Burress should have caught 80 passes and 12 TDs. What color are the raisens in your bagel?
The simple truth to the matter is that if he doesn't threaten to hold out, he has no leverage and will not get the raise he wants. Simple sports economics.
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Postby KingGhidra » Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:25 pm

moochman wrote:The simple truth to the matter is that if he doesn't threaten to hold out, he has no leverage and will not get the raise he wants. Simple sports economics.


I had to go to class so I couldn't respond right away. You used a very key word there: leverage.

Every argument has it's context and to the best of my ability I'll try and explain the context as I see it.

I'll start with LaDainian Tomlinson.

Coming out of college he was highly regarded. So highly regarded, he was drafted #5 overall and the first RB chosen in the draft. It was obvious from day 1, he was going to be given the keys to the offense. He came into the league with the expectation of being the franchise back and the starter. Given all those factors, he was paid like a first class starter right away: 6 years, $38 million dollars.

Clinton Portis wasn't as highly regarded as LT his rookie year. He was drafted in the middle of the 2nd round. Denver already had 2 guys who were gonna compete for the starting role. Portis was there as the #3 back. The expectation was that he would be a backup/change of pace and eventually be given his chance to be the starter if he worked out. He was, quite fairly, given the salary of a backup. The thing is, by week 4, he had already earned himself a starter's job. Coming into the 2003 season, Denver was so certain Portis was their man, they let Olandis Gary go. He entered a contract with the Broncos with the expectation of being a backup and was paid like a backup. However, he is doing the work of a full-time starter and more than deserves to be paid like a full-time starter.

There is NO good reason the Broncos shouldn't offer him a contract extension with a nice signing bonus as payment for a job well done. Outside of LaDainian Tomlinson, Portis is probably the best of the younger backs in the league. Yes, Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson were productive in the Denver running system, but Clinton Portis is a true game breaker. Any given play, he can put 6 points on the board for you. That's something Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson weren't and aren't. Guys like Portis only come along so often. They should lock him into a nice contract and not have to worry about a RB for another 6-7 seasons.
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Postby Free Bagel » Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:34 pm

He could've signed an incentive based contract, ala Brian Griese where he got a bonus if he became the starter, or a shorter contract if he thought he could become the starter.

Ya see, couldn't any player drafted after the first round just sign a 7 year deal, that way if they end up crappy, they get 7 garunteed years of pay, if they break out, they can just hold out....That's not how it should work, ya either sign a long term deal for security, and if you break out you deal with it until then, or you predict your own breakout and sign a short term/incentive based deal.

It's not like Portis is the first player to break out that wasn't picked in the 1st round. Zach Thomas was a 6th round pick, so he was paid even less than Portis. He played out his contract, it eventually ran out, and now he's got a huge new contract to show for it.

I'm sure Dominick Davis, Rudi Johnson, and Portis will all someday do the same, but they have to wait until their current one runs out. If everytime everyone became a starter/star they got a new deal immediately before their old one ran out, they would have to raise the salary cap because no one could afford to pay every sleeper that they found huge contracts immediately.
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