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If Clinton Portis becomes a Redskin, where do you rank him?

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Postby steelyeri » Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:48 am

Canadian_Cheesehead wrote:yea that sounds pretty logical, i don't see how they can keep spending (or throwing away in some cases) money



i don't know how close gibbs has stayed to football since his retirement, but maybe he hasn't been informed about this new thing they have now. it's called the salary cap. :-)
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Postby Buckychudd » Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:50 am

KingGhidra wrote:He stays right where he is at pick #4. If any fools in a redraft want to let him fall to the end of the first round, that's on them. Portis will show you guys that it's not all about the o-line in Denver.

Wrong again KG! :-D

There isn't exactly a whole lot of precedent on trading away a +1500 yd back. About the only thing I could find was Dickerson going to Indy after rushing for 1800 yards with the Rams the year before. He ended up injured half the year in Indy.....

Without a doubt the guy is talented, but there is an increased risk he won't perform as well in a different system.....this risk only increases since the team he is leaving is Denver, who are known for churning out high yardage backs.

With the possible exception of LT2, I would drop any top back a couple ranks for a change like this.....you just never know how they are going to do in a new system. Look at Priest, underachieved (mis-utilized?) in Baltimore.....but the system in KC has made him a star the last few years. If Priest left KC, I would never rank him as high as I do.
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Postby The Lung » Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:48 am

I think that when ANY player moves to a new team there is doubt that his production will fall off, even a player as talented as Portis. By continuing to rank him in your top 5 (not only running back, but top 5 overall pick!!!) you are taking a very big chance with what could likely be your FIRST PLAYER CHOSEN in next year's draft! I'm not a gambling man; I would go with the almost "guaranteed" production of a Green, Alexander, McAllister, etc. over the unknown and think it would be foolish to do otherwise.
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Postby KingGhidra » Tue Feb 24, 2004 2:30 pm

Buckychudd wrote:
KingGhidra wrote:He stays right where he is at pick #4. If any fools in a redraft want to let him fall to the end of the first round, that's on them. Portis will show you guys that it's not all about the o-line in Denver.

Wrong again KG! :-D

There isn't exactly a whole lot of precedent on trading away a +1500 yd back. About the only thing I could find was Dickerson going to Indy after rushing for 1800 yards with the Rams the year before. He ended up injured half the year in Indy.....


The only precedent we really have is what Joe Gibbs does with running backs.

John Riggins
year: yards: TDs
1983: 1347: 24
1984: 1239: 14

His two best years statistically came under Gibbs.

George Rogers
1985: 1093: 7
1986: 1203 : 18

Earnest Byner
1990: 1219: 6
1991: 1048: 5

His two best years statistically came under Gibbs.

The majority of RBs Gibbs coached were older retreads. Most of them had their best years statistically playing for him as opposed to their previous teams (just like your boy Priest Holmes). Gibbs never had anyone as young, talented and explosive as Clinton Portis. Given the fact that Gibbs likes to run the ball early and often, I couldn't see a healty Clinton Portis getting anything less than 330 carries with at LEAST a 4.0 average (4.5 is more likely).

Everyone keeps pointing to the fact that the Skins o-line "sucks". It wasn't their players, it was their coaching and scheme. Trung Canidate had a 4.2 yards per carry average behind that o-line that "sucks". If Washington can pull off getting Kleinsasser (one of the BEST blocking TEs in the league), you best believe he'll ensure Portis continues with his success real and fantasy wise. I can understand if someone wouldn't want to draft him in the #2 or #3 spot. But some of you are talking about putting him back there at #10 or #11 with Fred Taylor. That's just crazy.

The ONLY thing that would affect Portis's value would be a Gibbs decision to use a goal-line back. Rock Cartwright is smallish as a FB, so it remains to be seen what Gibbs does. That's the ONLY thing that would cause you to downgrade Portis on your cheat sheets significantly.
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Postby Canadian Seahawk » Tue Feb 24, 2004 2:51 pm

very well put and nice facts ;-D
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Postby terpfan » Tue Feb 24, 2004 2:59 pm

no i meant it was wrong. as in incorrect. im just so sick and tired of explaining this over and over so i left it at that. (see KG's post)

and by the way, of course statements can be wrong. its opinions that "can't be wrong". saying portis plays for the minnesota timberowlves would be wrong. ;-)

jansen, samuels, and thomas are all regarded as top olineman and joe bugel is the frickin creator of the hogs. i dont know what more reasoning u want, but i think that alone should be sufficient.

i was just expressing my opinion, perhaps with a hint of frustation at the apparent media bias toward the skins. nothing personal, i'm sorry if i offended you.
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Portis

Postby stonecoldbev » Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:32 am

If I have the 6th pick and he's there, I will be ecstatic. I'd still take him #1 overall. Look what a scrub like Timmy Smith, Byner on two bad knees, and a washed up Riggins did in Gibbs' system. Portis can take it to the house at any time, just like LT, Deuce, Jamal, Ahmaan and Fred Taylor. E. James and Ricky cannont do that.
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Postby Buckychudd » Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:10 am

KingGhidra wrote:Given the fact that Gibbs likes to run the ball early and often, I couldn't see a healty Clinton Portis getting anything less than 330 carries with at LEAST a 4.0 average (4.5 is more likely).

330 carries on a 4.5 yds/carry average would give him 1485 rushing yards......which is significantly less than what most people were expecting from him in Denver. I expect that most people would drop him at least a couple spots if they expected him to get less than 1500 yards rushing.

I also question his durability. If Gibbs tries to rush him 25+ times a game, I think he breaks down.....expect him to miss 2-4 games. If he gets that kind of workload his average will drop as well....right now he is sitting at 5.5 yds/carry, expect sub 4.5 under increased workload.

KingGhidra wrote:I can understand if someone wouldn't want to draft him in the #2 or #3 spot. But some of you are talking about putting him back there at #10 or #11 with Fred Taylor. That's just crazy.

Before the trade talks I had him at #4....behind LT, Priest, and Ahman. With the uncertainty that this trade brings, I think he drops behind Lewis, McAllister, and Alexander. Putting him in with Edge and Ricky somewhere between #7 and #9.

Of course everything will change after he plays a couple preason games.....then I will know where to rank him a little better.
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Postby Skinfan99 » Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:20 am

Here is something I found on the subject. Wacky Washington Does not sound good for Portis, Breunell (sp?) or Coles!
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Postby terpfan » Fri Feb 27, 2004 2:41 pm

Skinfan99 wrote:Here is something I found on the subject. Wacky Washington Does not sound good for Portis, Breunell (sp?) or Coles!

just more antiskins propaganda :-[
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