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Better End of the Deal?

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Postby Go Vikes » Sun Feb 29, 2004 8:46 am

Broncos got a better deal. I would call it even but the second round pick makes it better for the broncos.
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Postby Purple_Pride » Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:28 am

i think Portis is a real good back but I do think the Denver system makes him better than he really is. Bailey is a top flight CB and is also very young. I think the Portis for bailey part is really even, it helps improve both teams where they need it. Throw in a second round pick that could in theory tuen into another Clinton Portis and I think Denver wins this trade.
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Postby moochman » Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:37 am

Thanks, Terp, for covering my back. I do think that Taylor will fall for the same reason that the Skins got the better of the deal, even if both were the bests at their pasitions. Impact players like QBs, WRs, & RBs are valued more than CBs. Manning, Fitz, Winslow and Rathleschthburgher, whatever the hell his name is, the QB from the MAC school could be taken in the first 5 picks. So Taylor could very well be there at 6, if the Skins don't ruin my hopes.
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Postby Free Bagel » Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:34 pm

terpfan wrote:well bagel... pro bowl means more than just skill, there is alot of name recogntion involved.


Well he had to do something to gain that name recognition. It's not like he's some 34 year old over the hill guy who's living off the name he made for himself when he was 25....he's only 25 NOW.


moochman wrote:Impact players like QBs, WRs, & RBs are valued more than CBs.


Tell that to the Patriots. Sure, they rode Antoine Smith, Tom Brady, and Troy Brown past the Colts and to the Super Bowl :rolleyes:, or maybe that Colts win had something to do with a certain star CB's 3 INT's, and their entire season banked on a great defense (who's best player is their CB), without full blown Portis-like superstars on offense...

Sure, I'd rather have Ricky Williams than a great CB in Miami, only because the last 8 RB's before Ricky sucked in the same system. But if I knew that the last 3 had all been studs in the same system, I'd rather have the CB and plug in Griffin, a guy that has more promise than any of the previous 4 that excelled in the system.

This seems kinda like Billy Beane ball over in Oakland in the MLB. He claims he can plug anyone in at closer for his team and they'll excel. So he does, then he trades said pitcher at high value, then plugs in another guy, who also excels, etc.
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Postby terpfan » Sun Feb 29, 2004 3:38 pm

Canadian_Cheesehead wrote:I'm pretty sure Champ did play at the Pro Bowl, I distinctly remember him knocking down a long bomb to Marvin Harrison and making a nice pick. If my memory is correct he had 2 picks in the game. Portis is excellent and so is Champ Bailey. I don't think either team loses in this situation, although Shanahan might look stupid if the line can't produce without Alex Gibbs. I think Champ is the best corner in the game with only Woodson and Ty Law in competition. The second round pick however, will be invaluable if the Broncos were to draft, say Greg Jones, and they wouldn't lose all that much at running back, perhaps 300 or 400 yards. However, the Redskins will probably draft a D-Lineman, and if they snag a pass rushing DE, there passing D will improve. So in this case, there is no loser.

well champ had one pick, dropped atleast two others, got burned by harrison once and knocked down one or two passes. not bad, but not a great performance either. and whether you consider it a good game or not he DID NOT deserve to be there. anyone who watched at least half of the redskins games this year should be able to see that.

and bagel your right, he did earn the name recognition. my only point was that saying he went to the pro bowl 4 out of 5 years is a little misleading since he did not actually play to that caliber all four of those years.

and as for qbs, wrs, and rbs being more valuble than cbs.... i dont think that is necessarily true. but portis is a GAMEBREAKER, which champ is not, regardless of position.
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Postby Guest » Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:24 pm

Champ Bailey is without a doubt one of the top 3 corners in the NFL, Cheesehead aka Beans you forgot Chris McCallister who is probably developing into the best corner in the league. In my opinion if there is an "elite" corner that is overrated its Charles Woodson, his performance over the past 3 years has been dissapointing due to injury or whatever the case, in my eyes the only good game he had this year was against moss and Ill give you that he is one of the tougher men to cover. I like him and everything but I think hes living off his rep of his early years in the league.
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Postby 9er Fan » Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:42 pm

I think the Broncos would have had the better end of the deal in a straight up trade, not to mention the 2nd round draft pick they picked up. Having a CB that can single-handedly take the other team's best WR out of the game is a priceless commodity in the NFL. Portis is a great RB. He has durability issues, but is still a top-10 back. Bailey is a top-3 corner, arguably top-1, at a more important (IMO) position (not to mention the 2nd round draft pick).

The list of stud RBs in the NFL drafted outside the 1st round is long and distinguished. It's much harder to find a shutdown corner.

**Edit** typo-meant to say Broncos won the deal
Last edited by 9er Fan on Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Canadian Seahawk » Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:44 pm

9er Fan wrote:The list of stud RBs in the NFL drafted outside the 1st round is long and distinguished. It's much harder to find a shutdown corner.


Broncos win this one,,,,1. because of the above mentioned......2 can they continue success with "any" rb they use???? that will be the determining factor. oh yeah the 2nd rounder is a nice touch aswell ;-D
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Postby CC » Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:38 pm

terpfan wrote:
Canadian_Cheesehead wrote:I'm pretty sure Champ did play at the Pro Bowl, I distinctly remember him knocking down a long bomb to Marvin Harrison and making a nice pick. If my memory is correct he had 2 picks in the game. Portis is excellent and so is Champ Bailey. I don't think either team loses in this situation, although Shanahan might look stupid if the line can't produce without Alex Gibbs. I think Champ is the best corner in the game with only Woodson and Ty Law in competition. The second round pick however, will be invaluable if the Broncos were to draft, say Greg Jones, and they wouldn't lose all that much at running back, perhaps 300 or 400 yards. However, the Redskins will probably draft a D-Lineman, and if they snag a pass rushing DE, there passing D will improve. So in this case, there is no loser.

well champ had one pick, dropped atleast two others, got burned by harrison once and knocked down one or two passes. not bad, but not a great performance either. and whether you consider it a good game or not he DID NOT deserve to be there. anyone who watched at least half of the redskins games this year should be able to see that.

and bagel your right, he did earn the name recognition. my only point was that saying he went to the pro bowl 4 out of 5 years is a little misleading since he did not actually play to that caliber all four of those years.

and as for qbs, wrs, and rbs being more valuble than cbs.... i dont think that is necessarily true. but portis is a GAMEBREAKER, which champ is not, regardless of position.


Champ didn't deserve to be in the Pro Bowl? Please, who would you send instead of him? He's a great corner and no offense terp, but I think you have a little bit of a bias on this one, being the Redskins fan that you are. The Redskins had no pass rush this year, and Champ and Smoot were probably one of the top corner tandems in the league.

BTW I did forget Chris McAlister, my bad
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Postby terpfan » Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:43 pm

CC, how many redskins games did u watch this year?

dude, there is NO WAY champ played to a pro bowl level. NO WAY. i said that the day he was selected. im not being bitter just because he left. hes a good player, but he did not have a very good year. smoot outplayed him.

once again im not saying hes a bad player, just that he got to the pro bowl on name recognition only. if u want to dispute that you either: 1. did not watch more than one or two redskin games this year. 2. should be considered legally blind.
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