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It's Official: Carson Palmer named the starter for Cincy

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Postby DUKE » Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:13 pm

Buckychudd wrote:
DUKE wrote:
Buckychudd wrote:Chad Johnson's value definitely takes a beating

While you're at it, tell me which lottery numbers to choose for the mega-million :-D

21 06 18 09 11 Powerball 08

So what do you think, Palmer is going to come in and be able to read the field and make decisions like a veteran??? Gimmie a break, the QB is the hardest role to learn in the NFL by far. I hate to see a young QB get thrown to the wolves, even if he was a #1 pick.

Besides, I think Kitna deserved more than this from the Bengals organization.


Last year when the Bengals were in the "thick" of the playoff hunt and the games were big and the pressure was on, Kitna's numbers dropped. His record was 1-3. His TD to INT ratio was 4td/6int. He had 3 ugly QB ratings: 49, 65, 76, and had 3 very average offensive pt. outputs (10, 13, 14). You don't draft a Quarterback #1 and let him sit 1/3 of his contract on the bench. They wanted to name Palmer the starter before training camp, so that he could have the whole offseason to prepare for the starting role and to be able to take all of the snaps with the first team to prepare for the role. If Kitna were to start and continue from his average play from the end of last season and get yanked from the job, Palmer would have to go in and play without the preparation that he's going to get now with the whole training camp and preseason to get ready for it.
If my memory serves me correctly, Daunte Culpepper sat his first season and came in and played very well in his first year as a starter. I'm not saying that I "know" Palmer will come in and tear the league up, just that they are making the correct decision with the issue at hand.
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Postby KingGhidra » Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:20 pm

Before the season started, I got into a huge discussion with a buddy of mine about Cincy. I recommended that they trade Dillon for draft picks, not waste a #1 overall pick on Palmer and use the draft picks to address the defense.

He swore up and down that Kitna was a garbage QB and had never done anything good before (playing at Seattle under Erickson didn't help much) and wouldn't in 2003. Interestingly enough, the way things turned out, they'd be in a good position had they followed my advice. Dillon's worth around the league probably would have been much higher last offseason than this one. Rudi Johnson turned in some good perfomances and they'd hopefully have a much better defense in terms of personnel.

All of this had nothing to do with the topic, just thought I'd share...

Anyway, I agree with Marvin Lewis in naming a starter now, so there isn't any controversy heading into the season. I just hope it's his decision and not the owner telling him to start his $50m QB.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:36 pm

DUKE wrote:
Buckychudd wrote:
DUKE wrote:
Buckychudd wrote:Chad Johnson's value definitely takes a beating

While you're at it, tell me which lottery numbers to choose for the mega-million :-D

21 06 18 09 11 Powerball 08

So what do you think, Palmer is going to come in and be able to read the field and make decisions like a veteran??? Gimmie a break, the QB is the hardest role to learn in the NFL by far. I hate to see a young QB get thrown to the wolves, even if he was a #1 pick.

Besides, I think Kitna deserved more than this from the Bengals organization.


Last year when the Bengals were in the "thick" of the playoff hunt and the games were big and the pressure was on, Kitna's numbers dropped. His record was 1-3. His TD to INT ratio was 4td/6int. He had 3 ugly QB ratings: 49, 65, 76, and had 3 very average offensive pt. outputs (10, 13, 14). You don't draft a Quarterback #1 and let him sit 1/3 of his contract on the bench. They wanted to name Palmer the starter before training camp, so that he could have the whole offseason to prepare for the starting role and to be able to take all of the snaps with the first team to prepare for the role. If Kitna were to start and continue from his average play from the end of last season and get yanked from the job, Palmer would have to go in and play without the preparation that he's going to get now with the whole training camp and preseason to get ready for it.
If my memory serves me correctly, Daunte Culpepper sat his first season and came in and played very well in his first year as a starter. I'm not saying that I "know" Palmer will come in and tear the league up, just that they are making the correct decision with the issue at hand.


good post.
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Postby Buckychudd » Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:01 pm

DUKE wrote:Last year when the Bengals were in the "thick" of the playoff hunt and the games were big and the pressure was on, Kitna's numbers dropped. His record was 1-3. His TD to INT ratio was 4td/6int. He had 3 ugly QB ratings: 49, 65, 76, and had 3 very average offensive pt. outputs (10, 13, 14). You don't draft a Quarterback #1 and let him sit 1/3 of his contract on the bench. They wanted to name Palmer the starter before training camp, so that he could have the whole offseason to prepare for the starting role and to be able to take all of the snaps with the first team to prepare for the role. If Kitna were to start and continue from his average play from the end of last season and get yanked from the job, Palmer would have to go in and play without the preparation that he's going to get now with the whole training camp and preseason to get ready for it.
If my memory serves me correctly, Daunte Culpepper sat his first season and came in and played very well in his first year as a starter. I'm not saying that I "know" Palmer will come in and tear the league up, just that they are making the correct decision with the issue at hand.

Yeah, and he also had a 120 rating during that time.....
Two of those games were against two really tough Defenses in Baltimore and St. Louis. He didn't really get much help in either of those games from his RBs and Defense in those games either.

C-Pepp rode the bench for two years.....and has played average at best up until this year (in fact threw 23 interceptions his second season as a starter), his legs are what kept him starting his previous seasons......he just figured out how to read defenses this past season. Palmer is not a "running" QB, so he better figure out how to read a defense pretty quick. I'd rather see an organization try to develop a QB than have a trial by fire.

I'm not saying that Kitna should have gotten the starting nod, but I think at the very least he deserved a chance at it.
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Postby DUKE » Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:22 pm

Buckychudd wrote:C-Pepp rode the bench for two years.....and has played average at best up until this year

No, Culpepper started in his second season and made the Pro Bowl. He threw for 3,937 yards and 33 touchdowns! That's doesn't sound like only relying on his legs to me.
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Postby Buckychudd » Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:53 pm

DUKE wrote:No, Culpepper started in his second season and made the Pro Bowl. He threw for 3,937 yards! That's doesn't sound like relying on his legs to me.

You're right my bad, I missed a year......of course he was throwing to Carter and Moss. With that duo my grandma could have thrown for 3,500 yards. So I'm not sure that is a good example of what Palmer could do in Cincy.

DUKE wrote:They wanted to name Palmer the starter before training camp, so that he could have the whole offseason to prepare for the starting role and to be able to take all of the snaps with the first team to prepare for the role. If Kitna were to start and continue from his average play from the end of last season and get yanked from the job, Palmer would have to go in and play without the preparation that he's going to get now with the whole training camp and preseason to get ready for it.

Palmer should be ready whether or not he was named starter now......that is his damn job. Anyhow, how will his confidence and preparation be if he starts a couple games, plays poorly and gets yanked from the starting job? I know how the fans would react after that, they will boo him everytime he steps on the field. They should take a look at what happened to Couch in Cleveland and Leaf in SD when they started before they were ready.

Anyway, I still think the Bungles are making another mistake.....kinda like Jacksonville did this year by benching Brunell and starting Leftwich. We'll see who plays better this year Brunell in Wash or Leftwich in Jac. Unfortunately, it sounds like Kitna won't be starting anywhere......at least not at the start of the season.
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Postby ScreamingWeasel » Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:59 pm

Jon Kitna has always held a special place for me because I saw him play in the Championship Game for the Barcelona Dragons - before he ever came to the NFL and, originally, the Seattle Seahawks.
The kid had a canon for an arm - smart - and I KNEW he was going to be the "Next Big Thing" in the NFL.
And I STILL believe he has the ability to be a top-tier QB.
He got in a situation in Seattle where he was "inherited" by the (then) new coach Mike Holmgren. And he was not "Holmgren's guy". Mike wanted another Favre. Mike absolutely hated Kitna. Screamed at him on the sidelines. Dissed him in the press. Basically did everything to run him out of town. And brought in Hasselbeck from (surprise) Green Bay.
And now this at Cincinnati.
I tell you.
I rode Kitna @QB to a 1st-place regular season standing, and a league Championship last season.
But Jon Kitna is the Rodney Dangerfield of the NFL.
He CAN NOT get any respect.
Wasted talent everywhere he's been.
And it's too bad.

My 2 cents,
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Postby Azrael » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:11 pm

Buckychudd wrote:Palmer should be ready whether or not he was named starter now......that is his damn job. Anyhow, how will his confidence and preparation be if he starts a couple games, plays poorly and gets yanked from the starting job? I know how the fans would react after that, they will boo him everytime he steps on the field. They should take a look at what happened to Couch in Cleveland and Leaf in SD when they started before they were ready.

Anyway, I still think the Bungles are making another mistake.....kinda like Jacksonville did this year by benching Brunell and starting Leftwich. We'll see who plays better this year Brunell in Wash or Leftwich in Jac. Unfortunately, it sounds like Kitna won't be starting anywhere......at least not at the start of the season.


Who are WE THE OBSERVERS to decide when a player is or is not ready to be the starter? Obviously, none of us are in the locker room, on the practice field, or in any of the meetings. The people best qualified to decide if a player is ready to start is the coaches and 2nd management. Also consider that decisions are not always made with short term goals in mind. Lewis probably realizes that the Bengals are not SB contenders next year, but in his grand scheme to get there, one of the things he needs to find out is A. Is Palmer our guy? B. If so, he's going to need to get some experience under his belt before he can take us there.

Considering the welfare of the Bengals organization and Carson Palmer, which is really the only thing that matters (not whether Chad Johnson, Peter Warrick, or Rudi Johnson score 1 or 10 TDs), Can anyone in favor of Palmer sitting again this year tell me why this will be good for him or the Bengals in the long term. He can learn nothing more by sitting on the bench and not get any gametime experience
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Carson Palmer

Postby Daddymike59 » Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:26 pm

Many of us central Ohio football fans saw Palmer in preseason last year and could not believe how terribly OFF his timing and accuracy was for a supposed FRANCHISE qb. One of my fav quotes comes to mind"He couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat." Chad Johnson must be totally perplexed after the numbers he put up with Kitna taking the snaps. Preseason will definitely be interesting in Cincinnatti this year with most likely a whole new backfield.
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Re: Carson Palmer

Postby DUKE » Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:33 pm

Daddymike59 wrote:Many of us central Ohio football fans saw Palmer in preseason last year and could not believe how terribly OFF his timing and accuracy was for a supposed FRANCHISE qb. One of my fav quotes comes to mind"He couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat." Chad Johnson must be totally perplexed after the numbers he put up with Kitna taking the snaps. Preseason will definitely be interesting in Cincinnatti this year with most likely a whole new backfield.

Dude, you're making it sound like he sucked in preseason and that is way off-based. His preseason Qb rating was 87.8. In his first action, he computed an absolutely perfect passer-rating (the highest possible, i forget the exact number, 147.5 or something like that), went 7-7, hitting 6 different receivers, 2 TD's, and led the team to a win. Of course it was only preseason, and I'm surely not expecting that every game, but he didn't give any reason based on that to go and say he will struggle.

Also, good post Azrael ;-D

Wease: I agree with a lot of what you said (except for the part about him having a "cannon arm" :-D ) and I like Kitna a lot. He's a tough qb with tons of intangibles, and is taking this very gracefully. I love his approach and hope that some of that rubs off on Palmer.
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