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Postby proKrastinate » Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:06 am

kashikis wrote:WOW you guys are harsh as hell on the kid. I didn't like his move either but like maddog said he told this to the Chargers in a closed meeting. He never publicly said anything until the Chargers disclosed this to the media. I think the Chargers just did this to bait other teams into trading up for the first pick. In the end the Giants bit and made the trade.

I think he threw some piss poor attitude back at the Chargers for them trying to make an ass out of him for their own gain. So he was a bit childish but this isn;t the only time this has happened. Players come out and say which team they want to play for all the time. The difference between them and Manning was that they go right to the media while Manning sat down and explained it to the chargers like he should've. And the he went up there and held up the jersey anyway and posed for photos. To me that showed him swallowing his pride and showing some class.

San Diego made the first cheap shot in the public eye and I think he had every right to throw it in their faces. In the end though all that really matters is that every team involved in the Eli fiasco got what they wanted. Let's just leave it at that and see how these guys pan out before rating him #2 on the a$$hole list.


You make some very good points and I can definetly understand your side of the argument. It was if San Diego made the first sucker punch in this situation by going public. An eye-for-an-eye is our type of society. Archie expressed his concerns and told Diego that he didn't want them drafting his boy expecting it to be a business 'talk' and that it wouldn't leave the franchise. Then the Chargers let the world now and make Archie out to be an azz. If I were a Manning i would feel betrayed too. Cheap shot by the Chargers who know they probably wont draft someone who doesn't play for their team to increase his value.

However, I'm not a Manning.

But how would it increase the value of someone EVERYONE knows doesn't want to play for your team? So it must not have been a shot to make the value increase. Mannings dad made the very first comment. And I would imagine that San Diego felt hurt that Manning didn't want to even be drafted by them. Picture this, your wife/or/gf is in a fund raiser, where they auction of dates. No one bids on her because they thinks she's ugly. Would you be hurt? So for me it was actually the Manning's who threw the first punch. San Diego was only returning the favor.
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Postby maddog60 » Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:30 am

proKrastinate wrote:Mannings dad made the very first comment. And I would imagine that San Diego felt hurt that Manning didn't want to even be drafted by them. Picture this, your wife/or/gf is in a fund raiser, where they auction of dates. No one bids on her because they thinks she's ugly. Would you be hurt? So for me it was actually the Manning's who threw the first punch. San Diego was only returning the favor.


But Archie didn't make the statement in a way to publicly humilate the Chargers. He was very candid and polite about his request (mind you it was only a request), going to see AJ Smith in person, and privately discussing the matter. The Chargers then went public with it. If they did so because they felt insulted and were trying to get back at the Mannings, then their organization really needs to grow a tougher hide. It was just poor form to go public with this, and any humiliation their organization suffered is their own fault.

Also, by vowing to sit out a year, Eli was only exercising the right that every NFL draftee is entitled to. He wasn't making a special circumstance solely for himself, unlike what others have done/tried this offseason (Northcutt and TO). Seeing how he's entitled to sit out if he so chooses, then I really fail to see how he's disrespecting the whole draft process. Its in the rules, so its part of the process.
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Postby TheRawDAWG » Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:41 am

maddog60 wrote:
proKrastinate wrote:Mannings dad made the very first comment. And I would imagine that San Diego felt hurt that Manning didn't want to even be drafted by them. Picture this, your wife/or/gf is in a fund raiser, where they auction of dates. No one bids on her because they thinks she's ugly. Would you be hurt? So for me it was actually the Manning's who threw the first punch. San Diego was only returning the favor.


But Archie didn't make the statement in a way to publicly humilate the Chargers. He was very candid and polite about his request (mind you it was only a request), going to see AJ Smith in person, and privately discussing the matter. The Chargers then went public with it. If they did so because they felt insulted and were trying to get back at the Mannings, then their organization really needs to grow a tougher hide. It was just poor form to go public with this, and any humiliation their organization suffered is their own fault.

Also, by vowing to sit out a year, Eli was only exercising the right that every NFL draftee is entitled to. He wasn't making a special circumstance solely for himself, unlike what others have done/tried this offseason (Northcutt and TO). Seeing how he's entitled to sit out if he so chooses, then I really fail to see how he's disrespecting the whole draft process. Its in the rules, so its part of the process.


When you haven't thrown a ball in the NFL you should just be happy to be there. He isn't anything yet. Hell he didn't even win the Heisman. What makes him think he's all that? And really comparing him to TO and Northcut just proves everyone else's point, Spoiled Little Brat!!
So they weren't the best...and may have ended the worst. SO WHAT!
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Postby Lushcrush » Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:08 pm

As the talk revolves around sucker punches, consider this ... San Diego's first punch was a jab. They went public. Then they jabbed again when they drafted Eli. I think the haymaker right they followed with was trading Manning out of their conference. If they don't draft him, Oakland takes him and nothing but trouble follows in the way of criticism from the media and fans, as well as possible lost games at the hands of the Manning-led Raiders. Why didn't the Bolts just draft Rivers? To keep Manning from going to a conference rival ... pretty good strategy considering the extra picks they got in the trade.
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Postby maddog60 » Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:26 pm

TheRawDAWG wrote:When you haven't thrown a ball in the NFL you should just be happy to be there. He isn't anything yet. Hell he didn't even win the Heisman. What makes him think he's all that? And really comparing him to TO and Northcut just proves everyone else's point, Spoiled Little Brat!!


Sure, anyone of us would be just happy to be there, and some guys who have to work hard for every down they get to play. But you can't honestly expect that guys that are NFL caliber, that have lived, breathed, and ate football theri entire lives, guys like Kellen Winslow or Eli Manning, know they're good enough to be in the NFL. And if you know you're good enough to be there, why wouldn't you set your standards a bit higher. Why should anyone settle for what they're given if they can achieve more? God forbid someone dare have ambitions, goals, and the like.

As for the Heisman trophy, only one player wins that. There's a ton of immensely talented college players who didn't win it. So, I really don't see how Manning "not even" winning that is such a big deal.

As for why he might think he's all that. Well he does have a father and brother who have played in the NFL. They both know what it takes. They both can fairly accurately compare him against opponents they've faced, who are NFL material, and they both can tell him honestly how he stacks up against other NFL QBs. So, I think its fair to say he has a bit more insight into how he'll fair at the NFL level than just about any draftee.

Finally, I didn't compare him to TO or Northcutt. I use the word "unlike", a synonym for "in contrast." Eli was exercise a league right he's entitled too as a draftee. Both those players wanted the league to change its rule to fit their needs. If you can't see that there's a difference there then you're obviously blinded by hatred for Eli.
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Postby TheRawDAWG » Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:35 pm

Wasn't Ryan Leaf supposed to be a top flight NFL QB? How 'bout Tim Couch? Akili Smith Anyone? There is no sure thing. Which is why the COLLEGE players should just go where drafted and shut up. They don't have the right to say anything till they prove they are worthy. And do you know how a player proves he's worhty? By going out there and doing his damn job. Not because daddy and brother say he's too good for any one team. He can go play where ever he wants when he's proven he's good enough and becomes a FA. I just brought up the Heisman point because it just shows he wasn't even considered the best player in college. Strangely enough the guy that did win the heisman had the class to go where he was told to go. Of course, SD will now have a great QB, RB to build around. And with all their picks I think they can do it rather quickly. I'd rather be in Rivers position right now. The giants are better than the chargers are but they are mediocre at best and wont be getting much help from the drafts.
So they weren't the best...and may have ended the worst. SO WHAT!
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Postby AF » Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:35 pm

maddog60 wrote:Why should anyone settle for what they're given if they can achieve more? God forbid someone dare have ambitions, goals, and the like.


Then Eli shoudn't have a problem proving himself with whatever team he is drafted by. I wouldn't call being drafted #1 overall "settleing". Also, what makes playing on a crappy team in N.Y. better then playing on a crappy team in S.D. anyhow? He also hasn't achieved anything yet and there is nothing he can achieve in N.Y. that he wouldn't have been able to achieve in S.D., only difference is it my have taken a little more work in S.D. If you ask me begging to get onto a better team shows weak character and a lack of ambition. Greatness does not come without work and all have seen from Eli thus far is an unwillingness to go the extra mile to achieve anything.
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