Could somebody please explain this to me?

[Carolina Culpepper]

What an interesting thread! First of all you backed down way too quickly, Zimm, from your contention that Moss may well be the best WR ever. I have heard John Madden say the same thing several times in the last two years. Also for those who choke on that statement I simply remind you that something very objective and dear to FF fans - statistics - back the statement. Statistically, without debate, Randy Moss has the best stats of any wide receiver in history for his first six years of play. And unlike Jerry Rice he has not played with quarterbacks who are future hall of famers (although my man C-Pepp could eventually be of that caliber)! Instead he has given career years to quarterbacks that in the years before or after playing with him were average. Look at the career QB ratings of Jeff George and Randall Cunningham and then see their ratings for the years that they played with Moss. Also, I hear references to Moss being a crackhead. Hmm, let me try to recall when Moss has ever been accused of taking drugs since coming into the NFL six years ago...funny, I just can't ever remember a single time!! I guess that he does demand the ball 60% of the time, oh silly me, I forgot that that wasn't Randy, it was Mike Tice who came up with the "Randy Ratio". So lets review, stats show him on a pace to be the best, no drugs in at least six years, a coach (not Randy) that says the Vikings win when he gets the ball 60% of the time....but he still is a crackhead who doesn't try.

Don't back down for a minute Zimm, truth is truth. Beyond FF and in the real NFL, he is the stud. Defenses come into games against the Vikings having devised whole game plans designed around stopping him and still can't contain him. No other offensive player in the league has that kind of pressure on him.
You don't hear Viking players complaining that he isn't a team player. You don't hear Viking coaches complaining about it. You don't hear RAndy demanding to be traded or his contract re-negotiated. You don't see Randy killing people, ranting at coaches. But ya, he is certainly the poster child for what's the worst in the NFL. I'm just glad the Vikings have him!!

[Dazedncnfz]

The one thing all you Rice knockers fail to see, is that no matter what pace Randy is on, he is still compared to Rice...Why? Simple..the BEST WR to ever play this game is Rice plain and simple... I don't care what pace Randy is on, until he plays and does the things hes "on pace" to do, for as long as it takes to surpass Rice...he will never be better then Rice...

oh thats "Statistically" speaking...

[Mercer Boy]

The one thing all you Rice knockers fail to see, is that no matter what pace Randy is on, he is still compared to Rice...Why? Simple..the BEST WR to ever play this game is Rice plain and simple... I don't care what pace Randy is on, until he plays and does the things hes "on pace" to do, for as long as it takes to surpass Rice...he will never be better then Rice...

oh thats "Statistically" speaking...

Amen, brother. He is still my all-time favorite player. His records may be broken at some point, but he has defined the WR position for over 15 years.

[IDF]

The one thing all you Rice knockers fail to see, is that no matter what pace Randy is on, he is still compared to Rice...Why? Simple..the BEST WR to ever play this game is Rice plain and simple... I don't care what pace Randy is on, until he plays and does the things hes "on pace" to do, for as long as it takes to surpass Rice...he will never be better then Rice...

oh thats "Statistically" speaking...

WHAT THE HECK!?!?!?! That makes ZERO sense you say Rice is the best plain and simple. Well what if a guy has better stats then him, then he will be the best so your argument is a little hard for me to understand considering you are ignoring the stats that make moss GREAT!!!

And i forgot who posted it but Jamal Lewis is in drug trouble THIS YEAR not 97. He may have had problems in 97 but he was almost put in jail for selling drugs THIS YEAR.

[Cupertino_11]

Zimm, I think what you can gather from all this feedback is that...

1) No one disputes the talent Randy has or the stats that he could "potentially" put up.

2) Even the majority of people that dislike him as a player and person, still have him rated as the top WR.

3) Those who say he "sucks" are definately not talking about the football player Randy. They're referring to his attitude towards the game. Eh..... maybe throw in some divisional team fans out of spite.

I personally think the reason why Randy isn't a fan favorite outside of Minnesota is that he simply doesn't lay it all on the line. People love a Jerry Rice, Hines Ward, or even an Ed McCaffrey.....knowing that every single game these guys bring the attitude and the effort needed to help their team win. They're not showboats, they don't draw unneccesary attention to themselves. They're down-to-the-bone team players.
Those are the kind of players it takes to win championships.

Of course, here in FF land, there is no team concept and Moss is king. I would suspect that it will stay like that for several more years. Moss is that good.

[Carolina Culpepper]

Good post Cupertino. As for your point #3, I am not looking for people to "like" Randy. I agree that he is not like those few wide recievers you mentioned who are known to be all out every play all the time. That is the reputation they have gotten and probably deserve. What I am simply saying is that Moss is not different than all the other recievers other than those you mentioned in regards to effort and attitude. In fact he is better than some such as Owens and Keshawn Johnson. His bad reputation is all out proportion to his actual actions and deeds. He somehow has become the whipping boy example for all that is bad with the NFL. There are actually many that are alot worse. Examples that Zimm and others have given. And the best thing is that he has shown in the last three seasons an attitude that is getting better, not worse. And the last three seasons have been very difficult ones for the Vikings. Seasons where it would have been very easy to "go off" or display attitude. Hate to keep saying it but look at Keshawn and Owens when their teams started to stink. They came front and center to whine, complain, etc. I even saw some pretty heavy complaining and whining from the sainted Jerry Rice this last year when things became difficult in Oakland.

[moochman]

While I agree with T.O. being a whiner, at least he does it because he wants to be in the offense more. Candy seems like more of a pouter to me. He quit on the team in Chicago last season and it was it only a year or two ago that there were complaints about Moss not getting open and Culpepper having to run the ball too much? I know there are some issues between he and his QB. I feel the reason for that is the frustration a QB must feel when the rush is coming and Candy is being smothered by a CB that is 4" shorter and can't run as fast or jump as high.
And MeShawn doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as T.O. or Candy. A true legend in his own mind.

[Dazedncnfz]

The one thing all you Rice knockers fail to see, is that no matter what pace Randy is on, he is still compared to Rice...Why? Simple..the BEST WR to ever play this game is Rice plain and simple... I don't care what pace Randy is on, until he plays and does the things hes "on pace" to do, for as long as it takes to surpass Rice...he will never be better then Rice...

oh thats "Statistically" speaking...

WHAT THE HECK!?!?!?! That makes ZERO sense you say Rice is the best plain and simple. Well what if a guy has better stats then him, then he will be the best so your argument is a little hard for me to understand considering you are ignoring the stats that make moss GREAT!!!

And i forgot who posted it but Jamal Lewis is in drug trouble THIS YEAR not 97. He may have had problems in 97 but he was almost put in jail for selling drugs THIS YEAR.

I'm going to try and be nice here...maybe I'll even be able to word this so you can understand...

oh thats "Statistically" speaking

maybe you missed that part, maybe you didn't...and when I said Rice is the best plain and simple...that is excatly what I mean..he is the best..Moss may be the best right now, but Rice is the all time best...and Rice is still playing!....Right now Rice holds most and when I say most its more like all of the recieveing records a WR can have...there your "stats" and Moss can't touch them..

Rice, even now at 40 years old contiunes to set the standards by which ALL WR will be judged...thats how good, no wait GREAT Rice is....Moss has been playing for for what 6 years?..Rice has been for 20!...lets see how long Moss lasts....

The one thing that you don't want to do is turn this thread into a Moss vs Rice thread...you will lose, Moss isn't in Rice league...maybe he will get there someday...but not today

[SeaWolf]

People should really expect nothing exceptional from professional atheletes. Get caught with marijuana? DUI/DWI? Dodging child support? Sex with a minor?

Oh well. People do that too.

WOW, are you saying sex with a minor is OK?

People make mistakes. But I do have limits. Spousal abuse, killing someone, rape, sex with a minor, illigal drug use, and in some cases DUI are all unexceptable.

[Play Maker]

The one thing all you Rice knockers fail to see, is that no matter what pace Randy is on, he is still compared to Rice...Why? Simple..the BEST WR to ever play this game is Rice plain and simple... I don't care what pace Randy is on, until he plays and does the things hes "on pace" to do, for as long as it takes to surpass Rice...he will never be better then Rice...

oh thats "Statistically" speaking...

WHAT THE HECK!?!?!?! That makes ZERO sense you say Rice is the best plain and simple. Well what if a guy has better stats then him, then he will be the best so your argument is a little hard for me to understand considering you are ignoring the stats that make moss GREAT!!!

And i forgot who posted it but Jamal Lewis is in drug trouble THIS YEAR not 97. He may have had problems in 97 but he was almost put in jail for selling drugs THIS YEAR.

I'm going to try and be nice here...maybe I'll even be able to word this so you can understand...

oh thats "Statistically" speaking

maybe you missed that part, maybe you didn't...and when I said Rice is the best plain and simple...that is excatly what I mean..he is the best..Moss may be the best right now, but Rice is the all time best...and Rice is still playing!....Right now Rice holds most and when I say most its more like all of the recieveing records a WR can have...there your "stats" and Moss can't touch them..

Rice, even now at 40 years old contiunes to set the standards by which ALL WR will be judged...thats how good, no wait GREAT Rice is....Moss has been playing for for what 6 years?..Rice has been for 20!...lets see how long Moss lasts....

The one thing that you don't want to do is turn this thread into a Moss vs Rice thread...you will lose, Moss isn't in Rice league...maybe he will get there someday...but not today

Jerry Rice is the greatest wr of all time and still playing. As mentioned even he is 40 yrs plus, still sets the standard for other wr's. Same could be say to the good qb's of todays NFL if their good there gonna get compared to Montana & Marino cause they were the best, just because you getting compared to him dosen't neccessary mean that player has the attributes to perform that, but some do.