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Portis vs. Alexander

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Postby Free Bagel » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:23 pm

bagobonez wrote:Alexander...(when he was the starter).


bagobonez wrote:Portis ... if you count the ones he didn't play in.


Hahahahhahahaha. Seriously man, step back and look at what you're doing. So now you're counting the games where Portis wasn't playing but disregarding the games where Alexander didn't play?

You're reaching man, you're reaching hard. Comparing backups, yikes.

Also, don't try to argue that Portis was more inconsistent than Alexander the past two years, because you're just killing your own credibility. It's similar to me trying to argue that Portis was more durable than Alexander the past two years...it's just blatantly not true.

Another spot where you're losing tons of credibility is when you try and write off 2002 as a good year for Alexander. Seriously, WHERE WERE YOU IN 2002? Where were you while every Alexander owner out there begged and pleaded for someone to take Alexander off their hands for anyone they were willing to give up? You're way way way way too stuck on looking at overall stats for a season, it does not translate well to how the season actually played out. It's very easy to look at two guys in a draft and say "oh well this guy only had 175 yards less than this guy, but that's not how it works out during the actual season. In case your wondering, 115 yards was the difference between Alexander and Curtis Martin last year, but even discounting the TD's, Alexander was a significantly greater contributor. Don't get stuck on overall statistics or you'll dig yourself into some deep trouble come draft day.
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Postby bagobonez » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:39 pm

Free Bagel wrote:
bagobonez wrote:Alexander...(when he was the starter).


bagobonez wrote:Portis ... if you count the ones he didn't play in.


Hahahahhahahaha. Seriously man, step back and look at what you're doing. So now you're counting the games where Portis wasn't playing but disregarding the games where Alexander didn't play?

You're reaching man, you're reaching hard. Comparing backups, yikes.

Also, don't try to argue that Portis was more inconsistent than Alexander the past two years, because you're just killing your own credibility. It's similar to me trying to argue that Portis was more durable than Alexander the past two years...it's just blatantly not true.

Another spot where you're losing tons of credibility is when you try and write off 2002 as a good year for Alexander. Seriously, WHERE WERE YOU IN 2002? Where were you while every Alexander owner out there begged and pleaded for someone to take Alexander off their hands for anyone they were willing to give up? You're way way way way too stuck on looking at overall stats for a season, it does not translate well to how the season actually played out. It's very easy to look at two guys in a draft and say "oh well this guy only had 175 yards less than this guy, but that's not how it works out during the actual season. In case your wondering, 115 yards was the difference between Alexander and Curtis Martin last year, but even discounting the TD's, Alexander was a significantly greater contributor. Don't get stuck on overall statistics or you'll dig yourself into some deep trouble come draft day.


OK, let's say your right about making game-by-game stats more significant. Portis had a bunch of duds last year, and if not for his stellar week 14 performance, his overall stats on the year wouldn't have looked near as good. Shaun Alexander had a down year in rushing yardage in 2002, but he made up for it in receiving yardage. The seahawks were throwing the ball more that year, so Shaun had more receiving yardage. So what's the big deal?

Like I said, if you want to talk about consistency week to week, Shaun even beats Portis in that aspect. Shaun scored 10 fantasy points 14 out of 16 weeks last year. Portis scored 10 fantasy points in only 10 out of 16 weeks last year.

And for God's sake, stop bringing up 2002. That's the only argument anyone has against SA is his 2002 season. I dare anyone here to make a good argument against SA without mentioning the 2002 season.
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Postby Free Bagel » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:46 pm

I'm not sure where you're getting your stats from...Portis only played in two games that he didn't score 10 points in last year...

And the reason people keep on bringing up 2002 is because you can't base someone's draft position solely on how they played last season. If you could, well there wouldn't be any need to argue would there? Since we'd already know the exact rankings...
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Postby bagobonez » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:52 pm

Free Bagel wrote:I'm not sure where you're getting your stats from...Portis only played in two games that he didn't score 10 points in last year...


That's the key word. PLAYED. Seems like there were three games where he didn't PLAY. Two of them due to injury. In those cases, he was getting big fat goose eggs because he was sitting on the sidelines in street clothes because he has no tolerance for pain.

This argument has gone on way too long. The bottom line is, if you're trying to strike gold you draft Portis. If you want your first round pick to be someone you can count on you draft Shaun. They're both very talented. Let's give it a friggin' rest until the season is over, and whichever side of this argument wins can brag all off-season about it.

Actually, scatch that idea too. Because unless Shaun Alexander totally blows Clinton Portis out of the water, the Portis apologists are still going to argue that they won.

I can see it now "Portis would have led the league in rushing if he wouldn't have been injured for four games, therefore he was better.

So when you lose the fantasy championship do you say "Well I would have won if this and this and this would have happened?"

No. Production is production. Potential means absolutely jack squat.
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Postby Free Bagel » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:58 pm

bagobonez wrote:
Free Bagel wrote:I'm not sure where you're getting your stats from...Portis only played in two games that he didn't score 10 points in last year...


That's the key word. PLAYED. Seems like there were three games where he didn't PLAY. Two of them due to injury. In those cases, he was getting big fat goose eggs because he was sitting on the sidelines in street clothes because he has no tolerance for pain.

This argument has gone on way too long. The bottom line is, if you're trying to strike gold you draft Portis. If you want your first round pick to be someone you can count on you draft Shaun. They're both very talented. Let's give it a friggin' rest until the season is over, and whichever side of this argument wins can brag all off-season about it.

Actually, scatch that idea too. Because unless Shaun Alexander totally blows Clinton Portis out of the water, the Portis apologists are still going to argue that they won.

I can see it now "Portis would have led the league in rushing if he wouldn't have been injured for four games, therefore he was better.

So when you lose the fantasy championship do you say "Well I would have won if this and this and this would have happened?"

No. Production is production. Potential means absolutely jack squat.


Again, step back and look at how badly you're reaching here. You give stats that are wrong, you make an arguement, ignore the counter-arguement, and then make the same arguement again without even addressing the counter-arguement.

I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that Portis is some chump with no pain thresh-hold that is garunteed to miss 4 games every year...he's missed 3 games out of the 32 there's been the last two years, hardly an outlier amongt NFL RB's. The size arguement is a joke, there are plenty of other RB's that are as small/smaller and have been perfectly healthy.

Look man, 12 pages is enough of this nonsense, I'm done. To be honest I didn't even bother opening this thread for the first two days it was up because I saw "Portis vs. Alexander" and didn't even consider it a fair fight. I still don't think it's even close, Portis gets the nod a COUPLE of spots ahead of Alexander in my book, so we're just gonna have to agree to disagree, because I probably won't even open this thread again since all we're doing at this point is arguing the same thing for the 15th time. I've already typed out several responses to every arguement you have, if you want to post them again feel free, and then start back at page 3 and look through and you'll find my rebuttle, because there's nothing new here.
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Postby 9er Fan » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:43 pm

To me its a risk/reward issue. Portis definitely has a higher ceiling, but IMO, he also has a lower floor. I would be less surprised to see Portis score fewer than 10 TDs next year than I would Alexander.
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Postby JayM09 » Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:10 pm

alright fellas, both camps team portis, and team alexander have done a great job in proving their points, but i feel this thread has run its course.;-D


you guys had a good run here, but i think its time to shut her down.
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