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Postby VHawk15 » Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:47 pm

Okay, here's the problem with the Iraqi War. We were told by the administration that we were going to war because Iraq posed an imminent threat to the security of the nation. Bush and Powell told us about all the chemical, biological, and even nuclear weapons that they had hidden in Iraq. If America feared that they would be attacked again, then how could they say no to preemptive attack?

The problem is that now, after no WMD have been found, Bush and the Republcain Party are trying to saying things like "Would you rather Saddam still be in power?" Of course we wouldn't rather Saddam be in power. But if Bush would've told us last year that the reason for going to war was that Saddam was a bad man, then there's no way we would've gone to war in the first place and thousands of lives would've been saved, both American and innoncent Iraqi.

Also, I'd just like to say that America didn't get involved in WWII because Hitler was torturing Jews. In fact, that was going on for years before the U.S. declared war. The only reason we got in the war was because of Pearl Habor, not because bad men were doing things millions of miles away. But nonetheless, God bless our soldiers, it's not their fault that our president is an idiot.


Edited to add that I'm officially done with this debate, as I could go on for days arguing about politics. Enjoy the movie, I'm sure I will.
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The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all the people. -Noam Chomsky
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Postby Carolina Culpepper » Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:49 pm

cooleyhigh wrote:You make a good point but this is a slippery-slope and when does it stop? Is America now obligated to declare war on every nation that violates human rights? How can you justify helping Afghans and Iraqi's but not N. Koreans etc...

I fear the good natured attempt to stabilize the world will alter worldwide opinion and create the opposite effect. When this matter was being discussed camps began to form (England + US) (France + Germany). This reminds me too much of the causes of WWI and quite honestly it scares me.




I hear ya, Cooley and it is a good question. Let's be clear though that now as the facts come out on the food for oil deal, the secret arms shipments, etc. etc., that the Germans and French motives for not going to war were not from principle but pure economics and fear of their involvement with Saddam being exposed. It indeed would be difficult to police the world. The ramifications of going into N.Korea and/or China where real abuses are also happening would be world-wide. Fortunetly we could go into Iraq with minimal difficulty. Some times you have to pick and choose. One thing though, since going into Iraq, N. Korea and China and other bullies are listening to us more. Saddam became the example for the rest of the worlds bullies to take notice of!
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Postby TTTBone » Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:52 pm

Nfl Fan wrote:Here's what you boys on the left don't seem to get...

It's a friggin scary world out there.
All it takes is one nut job with a nuke
in a suitcase and it's all over.

So what do you suggest...

wait?

No, I suggest we go to war based on lies and distorted intelligence and then wait and see how many more "nut jobs" we can create.
Iraq was a mistake, and had nothing to do with 9/11. Saddam was a CIA poster boy from the 1960's through 1980's, but, got a little too big for his britches. Where do you think he got those WMD's from? We supplied them and then looked the other way while he gassed the Kurds and Iranians. Iraq was a far, far lesser threat than Iran or North Korea, though they're probably next on the list.
Funny, but I heard a former Army General on Fox describe the invasion of Iraq as a "the biggest Christmas present Bin Laden could have wished for."

On another note, I think it's pretty sad to see our country (and our government) so viciously divided. Seems noone can find any common ground nowadays. The debate here at the Cafe has been civil for the most part, but I still don't see any common ground. :-t

VHawk15 wrote:Edited to add that I'm officially done with this debate, as I could go on for days arguing about politics. Enjoy the movie, I'm sure I will.

What he said... :-b
Last edited by TTTBone on Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Carolina Culpepper » Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:59 pm

VHawk15 wrote:Okay, here's the problem with the Iraqi War. We were told by the administration that we were going to war because Iraq posed an imminent threat to the security of the nation. Bush and Powell told us about all the chemical, biological, and even nuclear weapons that they had hidden in Iraq. If America feared that they would be attacked again, then how could they say no to preemptive attack?

The problem is that now, after no WMD have been found, Bush and the Republcain Party are trying to saying things like "Would you rather Saddam still be in power?" Of course we wouldn't rather Saddam be in power. But if Bush would've told us last year that the reason for going to war was that Saddam was a bad man, then there's no way we would've gone to war in the first place and thousands of lives would've been saved, both American and innoncent Iraqi.

Also, I'd just like to say that America didn't get involved in WWII because Hitler was torturing Jews. In fact, that was going on for years before the U.S. declared war. The only reason we got in the war was because of Pearl Habor, not because bad men were doing things millions of miles away. But nonetheless, God bless our soldiers, it's not their fault that our president is an idiot.


Edited to add that I'm officially done with this debate, as I could go on for days arguing about politics. Enjoy the movie, I'm sure I will.




Here's the problem with that arguement which I hear all the time. The fact is that the same information on WMD that Bush was getting was also given to our Senate intelligence committee (with many Democrats on it), and the UN. Everyone, including the UN and France, and Germany, along with the Senate Democrats and Bush all believed there were WMD. The debate never was over if there were but what to do about it. All the UN resolutions leading up to war were condeming Iraq FOR HAVING THE WEAPONS. So to say that Bush fabricated the story of WMD is absurd. Now was everyone wrong, or did Iraq do something with the WMD? That is an interesting discussion. Just remember though, the UN believed they were there, condemned Iraq for having them (and using them against the Curds and Iran), demanded them to get rid of them, but refused to enforce their orders. The UN NEVER in the days leading up to the war said that WMD wasn't there. Yet everyone says Bush made it up. Go figure!!
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Postby Nfl Fan » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:11 pm

VHawk15 wrote: Enjoy the movie, I'm sure I will.


Spider Man?

JK...
;-D
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Yo, Met... thanks for the sig! GO DUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This NEVER gets old and neither does THIS!!
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Postby Nfl Fan » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:21 pm

Carolina Culpepper wrote:Here's the problem with that arguement which I hear all the time. The fact is that the same information on WMD that Bush was getting was also given to our Senate intelligence committee (with many Democrats on it), and the UN. Everyone, including the UN and France, and Germany, along with the Senate Democrats and Bush all believed there were WMD. The debate never was over if there were but what to do about it. All the UN resolutions leading up to war were condeming Iraq FOR HAVING THE WEAPONS. So to say that Bush fabricated the story of WMD is absurd. Now was everyone wrong, or did Iraq do something with the WMD? That is an interesting discussion. Just remember though, the UN believed they were there, condemned Iraq for having them (and using them against the Curds and Iran), demanded them to get rid of them, but refused to enforce their orders. The UN NEVER in the days leading up to the war said that WMD wasn't there. Yet everyone says Bush made it up. Go figure!!


Amen, brother!

You know how many quotes I've heard from Clinton / Gore (10 years ago, during their reign) decrying the WMD's and nuke program in Iraq?

Bottom line: Hussein is gone and we're better for it!!!!
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Postby Homeless » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:36 pm

Ive had several requests to put this one to bed. I think its run it course.

PS Spiderman rocks !!! :-b
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Postby slowkidz » Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:58 am

Homeless wrote:Ive had several requests to put this one to bed. I think its run it course.

PS Spiderman rocks !!! :-b


oh...i wanted to add something... ;-)

Uncle Ben wrote:With Great Power comes Great Responsibility.


;-D
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