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QB points

Postby broncosrule » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:09 pm

I'm in a league that scores equal points for passing, rushing, & recieving TD's. By my math, Peyton Manning was the #2 fantasy scorer by these points last year, behind PH. Does anyone have any experience in a league like this? I am, as of right now, putting more value on a top QB than RB, but I don't want to do anything stupid.
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Postby Free Bagel » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:18 pm

There are ALOT of leagues that give equal points for rushing, receiving, and passing TD's. This doesn't really give QB's any added value.

It's all about positional scarcity. I know KG has the stats somewhere, but I believe the stat was that the difference between the #1 qb and the #15 qb is about 30 points, while the difference between the #1 RB and the #15 rb is 3 times that amount.

Just think about it logically. RBBC's and such mean there are more sole starting QB's in the league than starting RB's. Your league likely starts only 1 QB, and 2 or 3 RB's.

That means, of the around 30 starting QB's, 10-12 (depends on league size) will be required to start in your league. Of the 20 or so starting RB's, 24-36 (whether you start 2 or 3 RB's) will be required to start in your league.

Simple arithmetic will show you that RB value is still lightyears beyond QB value. 30 qb's available, 10 used. 22 rb's available, 24-36 used.
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Postby Gunslinger » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:23 pm

It's not that Manning scores almost as many points as Holmes that you should be concerned with, it's how much more does Manning score than other QBs. I believe the term is VBD (value based drafting). But what it boils down to is that if I can get almost as many points from Pennington in the 6th round as you're going to get from Manning in the 1st then why should I waste an early pick on Manning? Why not get the rarer commodity and snag a headlining RB and let the guy who grabbed Trent Green in the 3rd round worry about whether to take Staley or Garner as his/her #2 RB.
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Postby Gunslinger » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:26 pm

Bagel beat me to the punch, and did a much better job of it.

That's funny Bagel, I was actually thinking of mentioning KG and Canacuna as possible sources for detailed breakdowns.
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Re: QB points

Postby Kensat30 » Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:49 pm

broncosrule wrote:I'm in a league that scores equal points for passing, rushing, & recieving TD's. By my math, Peyton Manning was the #2 fantasy scorer by these points last year, behind PH.



It helps to know your yardage scoring as well as TDs to know the impact it has on QB value. Also, if you get points for completions or other unusual scoring, it can have a big impact on QB values.

I think if anything, the td rule alone makes QBs LESS valuable than in a normal scoring league.

If you take away the QB rushing td/yardage point advantage, all the non-running QBs move up a notch.
Quarterbacks in general become less valuable because the gap between the best and the worst becomes smaller.

About half of the top 10 QBs (Culpepper, Vick, McNabb, Brooks, etc.) are rated so highly because of their running ability. Guys like Brady, Favre, and Trent Green all have similar value to top players when you balance passing stats.

Without knowing more info, I would say that QBs are not worth a first round pick or even an early round pick here. There are just too many good QBs out there. You can pick up very good value in the 5th, 6th, or even 7th rounds. Use your early picks to snatch up the starting RBs and good WRs.
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Postby KingGhidra » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:36 pm

As a general rule, changing the scoring at a position won't affect the positions value relative to other positions. That does not apply in this case and here's why.

The guys with average passing numbers and some above average rushing totals (Carter, Plummer) close the gap on the top guys better.

The guys with the above average passing numbers and above average rushing totals who were near the top of their class (McNair, Brooks), now become average.

Net result: The guys at the top who stayed at the top, look way better than the guys at the bottom who got much worse.

Here's how they look using 2003 stats assuming 10 yards/1 pt 1 td/6 pt

Code: Select all
Peyton Manning   4267   29   10
Trent Green   4039   24   12
Matt Hasselbeck   3841   26   15
Daunte Culpepper   3479   25   11
Brad Johnson   3811   26   21
Marc Bulger   3845   22   22
Aaron Brooks   3546   24   8
Jon Kitna   3591   26   15
Brett Favre   3361   32   21
Tom Brady   3620   23   12
Steve McNair   3215   24   7
Donovan McNabb   3216   16   11
Quincy Carter   3302   17   21
Jeff Garcia   2704   18   13
Tommy Maddox   3414   18   17
Jake Delhomme   3219   19   16
Joey Harrington   2880   17   22
Kerry Collins   3110   13   16
Byron Leftwich   2819   14   16
Jake Plummer   2182   15   7
Drew Bledsoe   2860   11   12
Jeff Blake   2252   13   15
Patrick Ramsey   2169   14   9
Chad Pennington   2139   13   12



For the VBD curious (that sounds kinda naughty), here's how they stacked up in relation to each other in a 12 team, 2 WR league for 2003.

Code: Select all
POS   PLAYER   POINTS   VBD   
QB   Peyton Manning   581   301   
RB   Holmes, Priest   361   272   
QB   Trent Green   542   262   
QB   Matt Hasselbeck   532   252   
QB   Daunte Culpepper   530   250   
RB   Tomlinson, LaDainian   329   242   
RB   Green, Ahman   332   235   
QB   Brad Johnson   494   214   
QB   Marc Bulger   492   212   
QB   Aaron Brooks   490   210   
QB   Jon Kitna   488   208   
QB   Brett Favre   483   203   
RB   Lewis, Jamal   300   201   
QB   Tom Brady   478   198   
QB   Steve McNair   477   197   
RB   Portis, Clinton   264   175   
WR   Moss, Randy   262   169   
QB   Donovan McNabb   443   163   
RB   Alexander, Shaun   254   161   
RB   McAllister, Deuce   249   154   
WR   Holt, Torry   236   145   
QB   Quincy Carter   421   141   
QB   Jeff Garcia   420   140   
QB   Tommy Maddox   412   132   
RB   Taylor, Fred   225   130   
QB   Jake Delhomme   402   122   
RB   Williams, Ricky   219   122   
RB   James, Edgerrin   207   114   
RB   Henry, Travis   204   109   
TE   Gonzalez, Tony   144   109   
RB   Davis, Stephen   198   105   
DEF   New England   208   102   
WR   Johnson, Chad   187   96   
DEF   Baltimore   197   91   
K   Wilkins, Jeff   179   86   
WR   Harrison, Marvin   180   85   
RB   Williams, Moe   173   84   
TE   Sharpe, Shannon   119   84   
WR   Boldin, Anquan   181   82   
WR   Ward, Hines   173   82   
RB   Faulk, Marshall   168   81   
RB   Davis, Domanick   173   80   
K   Vanderjagt, Mike   171   78   
WR   Mason, Derrick   168   77   
QB   Joey Harrington   354   74   
RB   Barber, Tiki   173   74   
WR   Moss, Santana   168   73   
DEF   St. Louis   178   72   
QB   Kerry Collins   351   71   
WR   McCardell, Keenan   164   71   
WR   Jackson, Darrell   161   68   
RB   Barlow, Kevan   163   68   
RB   Martin, Curtis   159   68   
RB   Westbrook, Brian   159   68   
RB   Johnson, Rudi   155   68   
WR   Owens, Terrell   158   67   
WR   Smith, Steve   157   66   
DEF   Tampa Bay   171   65   
QB   Byron Leftwich   344   64   
WR   Chambers, Chris   156   63   
WR   Coles, Laveranues   153   62   
WR   Horn, Joe   152   61   
DEF   Miami   165   59   
DEF   Kansas City   160   54   
TE   Heap, Todd   88   53   
RB   Duckett, TJ   143   52   
K   Stover, Matt   145   52   
RB   George, Eddie   138   51   
RB   Thomas, Anthony   137   50   
QB   Jake Plummer   328   48   
K   Kasay, John   140   47   
DEF   Tennessee   152   46   
RB   Pittman, Michael   133   44   
DEF   Dallas   150   44   
QB   Drew Bledsoe   322   42   
WR   Warrick, Peter   135   42   
K   Anderson, Gary   133   40   
K   Elam, Jason   133   40   
DEF   Minnesota   146   40   
DEF   San Francisco   146   40   
WR   Toomer, Amani   129   38   
DEF   Green  Bay   142   36   
TE   McMichael, Randy   70   35   
K   Longwell, Ryan   128   35   
RB   Dunn, Warrick   123   34   
WR   Bruce, Isaac   124   33   
TE   Williams, Boo   68   33   
WR   Boston, David   127   32   
RB   Hambrick, Troy   125   32   
TE   Pollard, Marcus   67   32   
TE   Mili, Itula   66   31   
K   Akers, David   124   31   
DEF   Carolina   137   31   
DEF   Seattle   137   31   
WR   McCareins, Justin   123   30   
TE   Crumpler, Alge   67   30   
TE   Jones, Freddie   64   29   
K   Brown, Josh   122   29   
WR   Wayne, Reggie   119   28   
K   Edinger, Paul   120   27   
WR   Walker, Javon   119   26   
WR   Johnson, Andre   117   26   
RB   Bettis, Jerome   120   25   
TE   Shockey, Jeremy   62   25   
DEF   Philadelphia   131   25   
TE   Graham, Daniel   59   24   
K   Vinatieri, Adam   117   24   
WR   Smith, Rod   114   23   
TE   Becht, Anthony   58   23   
TE   Kleinsasser, Jim   58   23   
RB   Buckhalter, Correll   113   22   
K   Hall, John   115   22   
DEF   Buffalo   128   22   
WR   Robinson, Koren   114   21   
RB   Hearst, Garrison   112   21   
DEF   Atlanta   127   21   
DEF   Pittsburgh   127   21   
RB   Staley, Duce   111   20   
TE   Kinney, Erron   55   20   
K   Graham, Shayne   113   20   
K   Mare, Olindo   113   20   
RB   Garner, Charlie   106   19   
K   Brien, Doug   112   19   
K   Anderson, Morten   111   18   
DEF   New Orleans   124   18   
DEF   Indianapolis   124   18   
WR   Kennison, Eddie   109   16   
K   Reed, Jeff   109   16   
K   Carney, John   109   16   
K   Cundiff, Bill   109   16   
K   Elling, Aaron   108   15   
QB   Jeff Blake   294   14   
TE   Ricks, Mikhael   48   13   
DEF   Cleveland   119   13   
DEF   Detroit   119   13   
WR   Burress, Plaxico   103   12   
WR   Glenn, Terry   103   12   
TE   Miller, Billy   47   12   
K   Hanson, Jason   105   12   
K   Janikowski, Sebastian   105   12   
RB   Bryson, Shawn   98   11   
TE   Franks, Bubba   46   11   
DEF   NYG   117   11   
RB   Anderson, Richie   97   10   
TE   Clark, Desmond   48   9   
WR   Smith, Jimmy   99   8   
WR   Morton, Johnnie   99   8   
RB   Smith, Onterrio   94   7   
DEF   Denver   112   6   
QB   Patrick Ramsey   285   5   
TE   Weaver, Jed   40   5   
WR   Streets, Tai   95   4   
TE   Gates, Antonio   41   4   
K   Marler, Seth   97   4   
WR   Engram, Bobby   98   3   
WR   Muhammad, Muhsin   95   2   
WR   Price, Peerless   93   2   
TE   Schobel, Matt   37   2   
RB   Wheatley, Tyrone   92   1   
TE   Conwell, Ernie   36   1   
QB   Chad Pennington   280   0   
WR   Rice, Jerry   93   0   
WR   Branch Deion   91   0   
RB   Faulk, Kevin   95   0   
TE   Clark, Dallas   35   0   
TE   Fauria, Christian   35   0   
K   Feely, Jay   93   0   
DEF   NYJ   106   0   


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