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Kevin Jones vs. Julius Jones

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Postby awwchrist » Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:55 am

I'm wondering when did Thomas Jones ever do anything to deserve any of the hype?

I wouldn't dismiss Anthony Thomas just yet.
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Postby Ek » Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:06 am

He hasn't done much, but he's certainly done more than Kevin or Julius, who last time I checked, have a combined zero yards and zero touchdowns in the NFL. Anthony Thomas is a concern - he's accomplished more in three years than TJ has in more time than that - but TJ should fit Lovie's system much better, and nearly all of the Bear's major moves this offseason were geared towards improving their running game.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:37 am

awwchrist wrote:I'm wondering when did Thomas Jones ever do anything to deserve any of the hype?

I wouldn't dismiss Anthony Thomas just yet.


I wouldnt necessarily say TJ is getting hyped. He's still considered a longshot by most fantasy sources and owners. I think its been a popular topic here at the Cafe due to some cheerleading on my part and others, but outside of the Cafe hes still pretty much ignored by most.

I am not dismissing Atrain as much as I probably sound - I think he will see short yardage and goalline situations at the minimum.

Dont get me wrong - Tjones is not a #2 RB by any stretch, but as a #3 he has great breakout potential. I do think he's a better pick than the rookies though. If you want to talk about hype, you have to start with Julie Jones - seriously, some people are actually drafting him as their #2 RB.
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Postby maddog60 » Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:47 am

Ek wrote:He hasn't done much, but he's certainly done more than Kevin or Julius, who last time I checked, have a combined zero yards and zero touchdowns in the NFL. Anthony Thomas is a concern - he's accomplished more in three years than TJ has in more time than that - but TJ should fit Lovie's system much better, and nearly all of the Bear's major moves this offseason were geared towards improving their running game.


Well yeah they have 0 yards and 0 TDs, they also have 0 playing time. In 5 years, Thomas Jones has done squat. He's been unable to wrest the starting job from some of the leagues worst starting RBs, and now competes with A-Train, who is more accomplished than any other RB that Jones has had to compete with.

Sorry, kinda lost focus. My point is that I'd rather take someone whose unproven than to take a proven loser and Thomas Jones has done nothing but prove he's unable to start in the NFL.
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Postby Ek » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:14 pm

Good points. My point is mainly that you take a risk with any of these three backs...TJones could put it together this year, but he could just as easily loose his starting job by week 4...the other guys are rookies who have decent, but not incredible, talent and may or may not be able to hack it in the NFL. All three of these guys are going to get a chance to succeed, probably only one or two of them will. Personally, I'm leaning towards Thomas Jones, partly because I'm a little biased and partly for the reasons mentioned by Cornbread and CC.

(btw - of the two rooks I like Julius a little better)
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Postby KingGhidra » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:21 pm

maddog60 wrote:Well yeah they have 0 yards and 0 TDs, they also have 0 playing time. In 5 years, Thomas Jones has done squat. He's been unable to wrest the starting job from some of the leagues worst starting RBs, and now competes with A-Train, who is more accomplished than any other RB that Jones has had to compete with.

Sorry, kinda lost focus. My point is that I'd rather take someone whose unproven than to take a proven loser and Thomas Jones has done nothing but prove he's unable to start in the NFL.


;-D ;-D
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:30 pm

maddog60 wrote:Well yeah they have 0 yards and 0 TDs, they also have 0 playing time. In 5 years, Thomas Jones has done squat. He's been unable to wrest the starting job from some of the leagues worst starting RBs, and now competes with A-Train, who is more accomplished than any other RB that Jones has had to compete with.

Sorry, kinda lost focus. My point is that I'd rather take someone whose unproven than to take a proven loser and Thomas Jones has done nothing but prove he's unable to start in the NFL.


well as long as you completely throw out situation, then yes you have a point, but of course thats not sound logic then is it?

He didnt succeed for a team with no oline, no defence, no offense, and a bad coach. He must suck.

Last yr he played for a decent team and avg. 4.6 ypc. What happened between 2002 and 2003 - I thought he was terrible? Was it possibly that the SITUATION changed?
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Postby KingGhidra » Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:48 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
Last yr he played for a decent team and avg. 4.6 ypc. What happened between 2002 and 2003 - I thought he was terrible? Was it possibly that the SITUATION changed?


Was it possibly that his stats are padded with a 9 carry 134 yards game against Green Bay? It doesn't matter that two of those carries were for 61 and 51 yards? Take away just TWO carries from Thomas Jones and his average looks like the sucky TJ we all know and hate from Arizona. Now take away two great carries from any other top 20 running back and they won't lose nearly as much as TJ loses.

It's obvious you're a smart guy CB. Don't those anamolies bother you at all? Are you really gonna judge a guy based on two carries?

He was bested by two running backs in Arizona. Yes we all agree Arizona sucked. So did San Diego, Cincinnati, Jacksonville and Seattle (we've been over this before haven't we) and they all had a stud RB. He was never able to decisively beat Pittman or Shipp in Arizona. If he can't beat two average at best running backs, why would a change of scenery make him so great? TJ is the Troy Hambrick of 2004. He'll be the starter (for at least a few games), get the majority of carries and won't amount to more than a bye week fill in.

Read these next lines over a few times.

We all agree Arizona sucked. What did he do to make them better? Nothing.

Stop beating the "but Arizona was bad" drum.

KG's conclusion: Arizona sucked BECAUSE they had players LIKE Thomas Jones. He dragged the team down, not vice versa. Don't make me get out a list of first round bust running backs. Stop acting like it doesn't happen regardless of situation.

:-b

One final note. Many people are hyped about the offensive system being installed in Chicago. Lovie Smith is going to install a Vermeil type offensive system that produced stars like Marshall Faulk and Priest Holmes. The system relies heavily on the dual threat, rushing receiving running back. It's not the west coast system, but it's very similar as far the the running back is concerned.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Jon Gruden knows something about offense. He runs the west coast offense. He made a fantasy star out of Charlie Garner. Garner is the archetype for west coast backs like Staley and Hearst. Not the best pure runner, but a very good one. Huge threat in the passing game. Thomas Jones did not succeed in that system in Tampa Bay. TJ is no factor in the passing game.

Chicago is stuck with two running backs who don't really fit the system they want. A-Train is probably a better running back than TJ. Who does everyone think will be the starter at the end of the season? The way things stand right now, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Dwone Hicks.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:26 pm

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this.

KG - Im really glad you brought up his long runs. It led me to go back and carefully look at TJs stats from last yr. Basically doing so showed me he did in fact become the #1 RB for TB last yr, and he proved he has big play capability. Cool.
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Postby KingGhidra » Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:27 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Sorry it took me so long to get back to this.

KG - Im really glad you brought up his long runs. It led me to go back and carefully look at TJs stats from last yr. Basically doing so showed me he did in fact become the #1 RB for TB last yr, and he proved he has big play capability. Cool.


So you have to answer these questions honestly

If he had become the #1, why didn't TB hesitate to let him go?

Are the Bears gonna be significantly better than last year? At least as good as TB was last year?

...

Anyone can break a long run given enough tries. Aveion Cason broke a 63 yard TD run against Atlanta week 1 and had a 5.5 YPC average for 2003, but no one is singing his praises and I doubt they would if he went to another team. If you really want to base your evaluation of TJ on two carries, be my guest. I'm just surprised you would.
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