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Why Ricky?

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Postby KingGhidra » Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:56 am

Free Bagel wrote:
C'mon dude, don't make me bring out the re-read comment. No where did a say Miam's offense was going to be anywhere near what Seattle's is, you completely missed my point.


I didn't pick Seattle out of a hat. You're the one comparing SA and Ricky. A comparison of their supporting cast is valid for the discussion.


I still have yet to see a good reason to knock Ricky out of the top 10. Saying the people around him sucks is a joke because THEY ALREADY SUCKED BEFORE AND HE DID FINE. Saying people will stack the box is a joke because THEY ALREADY STACKED THE BOX BEFORE AND HE DID FINE.


Fine as in, 3.5 yards per carry. Luckily for Ricky, there is zero talent behind him at the RB position or he might see a lot less carries this season.

I should've been more clear with my original post. I have no problem with him being ranked at the top spot. It makes sense for him to be there. He's a top 10 back with upside... maybe... I question the people I've seen taking him 6th and 7th and that's why I chimed in here.


This is why I try to stay out of discussions involving Washington players...
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Postby KingGhidra » Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:58 am

Canadian_Cheesehead wrote:Much like the Portis vs. Alexander debate, I'm going to side with FB. I have Ricky as the 6th back off the board, and most people consider that too high. However the likelyhood that a back of Ricky's calibre will only rush for 3.5 ypc again is pretty slim, whereas he has proven himself a durable and consistent back over the last 2 years in Miami.



He's done it twice in five seasons.
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Postby Free Bagel » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:01 am

KingGhidra wrote:
Free Bagel wrote:
C'mon dude, don't make me bring out the re-read comment. No where did a say Miam's offense was going to be anywhere near what Seattle's is, you completely missed my point.


I didn't pick Seattle out of a hat. You're the one comparing SA and Ricky. A comparison of their supporting cast is valid for the discussion.


You're still missing the point, I'm NOT comparing Alexander and Ricky.

What I'm saying is, to knock someone that far down you need a large reason. Alexander losing his supporting cast would be a large reason. Ricky losing his supporting cast is NOT a large reason, because Ricky's supporting cast sucks and Alexander's doesn't.

Think of it this way. Had the Niners not lost Garcia, Owens, and Streets, Barlow likely would've been a top 10 back this year. But they did, and Garcia, Owens, and Streets is alot to lose, enough to bump him down a good deal of spots.

Now, Ricky didn't have anyone of Garcia or Owens caliber on his team the last few years, so there's really no one on his offense that he could lose that would have the effect of knocking him down that many spots like it did for Barlow.

Same goes for LT and to a lesser extent Jamal Lewis. Take away their supporting cast and it's not gonna effect their draft rating that much because their supporting cast sucked anyway. Now, take away Priest, Alexander, or Marshall Faulk's supporting cast, and you would say a MUCH larger drop in draft position for them.
Last edited by Free Bagel on Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:02 am

Free Bagel wrote:I still have yet to see a good reason to knock Ricky out of the top 10. Saying the people around him sucks is a joke because THEY ALREADY SUCKED BEFORE AND HE DID FINE. Saying people will stack the box is a joke because THEY ALREADY STACKED THE BOX BEFORE AND HE DID FINE.


Hey - I don't know who you are arguing with but its not me. I never said any of those things.

I'm saying that he is worn out. Plain and simple - he hit the wall last year. Everything was down except his carries. And not down a little, but off a cliff, down. Somebody should call Children's Aid because Ricky has been seriously abused by Wannstedt.

How many backs have been able to put up big numbers after this many carries in so short a time frame?

George had one season of 14 TDs and then he hit the wall. C-Mart had one more year of 1,500 and 10TDs then he hit the wall too. Nobody gets better after this type of abuse. The body just cannot take it.

And what is this about RBs wearing down when they are 30? Its the number of carries and not age that matters. IF it was age would C-Mart and Eddie just be wearing down now? No. Both are 30 and started going downhill years ago.
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Re: Why Ricky?

Postby TheBigBakedBean » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:08 am

Mookie4ever wrote:Twelve RBs whom I predict will be better than Ricky this year (not really in any order):

Priest
Green
LT
SA
Portis
Deuce
Lewis
Taylor
Dillon
Barlow
Henry
Edge


WTF??!??!!???
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Postby TheHeat24 » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:09 am

Just to add... Ricky Was dropped behind the line of scrimmage over 35% of his carries last year... Meaning theres no way that offensive line can get any worse....

Secondly, on the guys you think will finish ahead of him, you (ken jeopardy) used the arguement that hes on a horrible offense yet you said kevan barlow will finish ahead of him, the kevan barlow with no true no1 or even 2 receivers, no qb....

And taylor who has no "upside" as you call it to increase his tds because jax uses a goal line back....

Travis henry who will be splitting carries with Willis McGahee...

And Corey Dillon who is getting older and has more carries than ricky and is on a team that goes 5 wide almost the entire game....

I really dont see how you can possibly say he has no upside... LT2, Deuce McCallister, and Ricky are the 3 most firmly entrenched Runningbacks on their respective offenses. No one is gonna take any touches away from them and they will have many opportunities. As a fantasy football owner those are the scenarios you love because you know they are gonna be getting all the chances for yards and tds...
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Postby KingGhidra » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:12 am

Mookie4ever wrote:
Free Bagel wrote:I still have yet to see a good reason to knock Ricky out of the top 10. Saying the people around him sucks is a joke because THEY ALREADY SUCKED BEFORE AND HE DID FINE. Saying people will stack the box is a joke because THEY ALREADY STACKED THE BOX BEFORE AND HE DID FINE.


Hey - I don't know who you are arguing with but its not me. I never said any of those things.

I'm saying that he is worn out. Plain and simple - he hit the wall last year. Everything was down except his carries. And not down a little, but off a cliff, down. Somebody should call Children's Aid because Ricky has been seriously abused by Wannstedt.


I don't think he hit the wall physically. He may have hit it mentally. Not because he is weak, but because he had no faith in his o-line. He'd get the handoff and dance around and hope for a hole. Instead he usually got a bunch of d-linemen in his face. We all know Ricky is not the dance around type. Maybe a season off and reps with the new unit will restore his confidence, at least early on. If the o-line struggles, he will too. His performance is very tied to the line play since he isn't as fast or elusive as some of the other elite backs.


How many backs have been able to put up big numbers after this many carries in so short a time frame?

George had one season of 14 TDs and then he hit the wall. C-Mart had one more year of 1,500 and 10TDs then he hit the wall too. Nobody gets better after this type of abuse. The body just cannot take it.


I wouldn't say he's been abused. He has about as many carries as any other RB from the 99 draft class. George hit an injury wall, he didn't just stop being good out of nowhere. If you want to discuss if that was because of the 400 carries, that's a different discussion. Ricky hasn't hit an injury wall yet, so it's irrelevant.

Curtis Martin can't even see the wall yet, so I doubt he's hit it. His YPC are still right in line with his career average. You're basing your evaluation on him by touchdowns.

And what is this about RBs wearing down when they are 30? Its the number of carries and not age that matters. IF it was age would C-Mart and Eddie just be wearing down now? No. Both are 30 and started going downhill years ago.


You need to pick a different RB besides C-Mart because it doesn't help your argument at all. Him and his team have gotten off to some slow starts the past few seasons, but he's always looking like a 25 year old come the second half of the season.
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Postby UtopianHopes » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:13 am

Until i see it for myself. I will never believe he hit rock bottom. That kind of stupid, the way you predict it to happen. C-Mart and E. George both had inj that slowed them down. Also, I havent seen any reports of ricky williams lossing a step. For all i know he perfectly fine. So, your just basically telling me to not pick him in the top 10, because you got a feeling he will hit rock bottom?...eh
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Postby Free Bagel » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:14 am

Mookie4ever wrote:George had one season of 14 TDs and then he hit the wall. C-Mart had one more year of 1,500 and 10TDs then he hit the wall too. Nobody gets better after this type of abuse. The body just cannot take it.


So, are we doing our rankings for this season or next, because those certainly look like top 10 numbers to me.

You can't honestly tell me that some of those guys you're putting ahead of him don't carry more baggage.

Barlow--Couldn't beat out old man Heast, and is now on an offense with virtually no talent. The main difference between him and Ricky? Ricky has proven he can do well on a team with no supporting cast, Barlow hasn't.

Henry--While I myself don't believe Mcgahee will steal as many carries as people think, it's certainly baggage, and large baggage as that, otherwise he wouldn't be falling as low as he is. The bust potential is certainly greater here, as worst case is a RBBC where he would end up with far lower numbers than Ricky even if Ricky does have a bad year.

Taylor--Even in his best year, waaaay back in 1998, Taylor barely exceeded Ricky's point total from 2003. In case you've forgotten, you seem to consider Ricky's point total from 2003 to be rather lousy. Also note that 1998 was back before Taylor was spelled for goalline carries. Since he has begun being taken out inside the 10 yard line, he hasn't come close to Ricky's numbers.

Dillon--Well, not much to say here. In his 8 year career (7 years starting) he has never scored more fantasy points than Ricky did in 2003 (again, a year in which you consider lousy numbers for Ricky). Now, he moves to a team that, while much better, seems to have the running game in only the back few pages of their offensive playbook, preferring to spread the field and throw the ball. Then I could go on and on about the off the field antics, etc if I really felt like it, but that's unnecessary.


YPC is perhaps the worst gauge of a top fantasy RB out there. It can be used in gauging a real life running back, but not fantasy. So he had a 3.5 ypc? So what? He still finished top 10. All that that shows is that even when the defenses are putting 500 guys in the box theyr'e still gonna give him the ball and he can still punch out top 10 numbers.

When I'm playing fantasy football, if my RB gets me 1500 yards I don't care if he did it on 1500 carries or 150 carries.
Last edited by Free Bagel on Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby TheHeat24 » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:15 am

KingGhidra wrote:
Canadian_Cheesehead wrote:Much like the Portis vs. Alexander debate, I'm going to side with FB. I have Ricky as the 6th back off the board, and most people consider that too high. However the likelyhood that a back of Ricky's calibre will only rush for 3.5 ypc again is pretty slim, whereas he has proven himself a durable and consistent back over the last 2 years in Miami.



He's done it twice in five seasons.


The first time was in his rookie season when he only played twelve games... Im pretty sure a rookie by the name of LaDainian Tomlinson only rushed for 3.6 yds/c in his rookie season also...
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