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How do C. Johnson, and H. Ward get ranked so high?

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How do C. Johnson, and H. Ward get ranked so high?

Postby Shai » Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:35 pm

I'm curious how they, and a few others (Boldin, Smith, ...), get ranked very high yet have QBs that are ranked low? If there QBs are questionable, how does it justify the high WR ranking. WRs are at the mercy of their QB's performance, I would think. I have seen Ward, and Johnson ranked around 4-5, and I've seen Boldin ranked as high as 6 (Pre-injury), yet they all seem to have questionable QB situations. On top of that Johnson, and Ward seem to have pretty tough schedules this season. I'm just wondering how they get ranked that high under the circumstances.
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Postby irishboy » Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:39 pm

a lot of the time its wrs that make the qb - not the other around; ward is ranked high because of his personal ability to make the plays despite maddox at qb. of course ur qb needs to be good for a wr to be good, but it doesn't take someone like manning or culpepper
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Postby Turnip » Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:39 pm

This is a good question. Yardage is not the big determinant for QB's. In a lot of 10 team leagues Maddox might not even get drafted, but those who don't draft him still expect him to get 3200+ yards passing. They have to go somewhere. 3,200 yds, 16 tds, 15 INTs...those aren't good fantasy numbers but there are still a lot of yards to be spread around. This is what a lot of people mean by saying that there the QB position is really deep. I hope I answered your question.
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Postby Guttpuppy » Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:41 pm

Leagues that award a point per reception.

Bigtime players make bigtime plays...Hines has more catches than anyone in the league for the past 3 years...except for Marvin. ;-)

I think that's how I heard it...correct me if I'm wrong.
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Postby Navyseal » Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:51 pm

Remember a fella named Jimmy Smith ? Well, in his prime, he was always ranked in the top 5 yet his QB, Mark Brunell has never thrown for more than 20 TDs... Jimmy still produced more often than not. In other words, there is not always a direct correlation between a QB's historical #'s and a stud receiver's projected #'s.
In Ward's case, he has posted very good rec's, yards, and TDs the last 2-3 years despite Maddox's inexperience when he stepped in two years ago --- he was THE go to guy in Pittsburgh's passing offense. While Maddox had only a so-so year last year, Ward still thrived (kind of at the expense of Plexiglass, but that's another story). People are projecting Maddox to return to form this year with his improved O-Line, that still remains to be seen, however.
In Chad Johnson's case, folks liked the improvement and semi-elite status he has achieved over the last two seasons. He has true homerun ability as seen in some of his longer TDs, and eventhough the QB position in Cinci appears to be a transitional one, most people realize that if Palmer just doesn't "get it" right away this season, Kitna is sure to return to the lineup as Marvin Lewis is no fool... Palmer's skills physical presence and upside are admittedly better than those of Kitna's. Cinci burned the top draft pick on him, and at some point have to get him in the lineup to validate that pick.

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Postby deftdelivery » Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:01 pm

To be frank, I really don't think this question is worthy of discussion. Your answer is as simple as looking at last year's stats: Boldin had a terrible QB last year in Jeff Blake, and finished in the top 10. Ward as well, with Tommy Maddox. They are ranked so high because...the stats speak for themselves...nothing else to it.
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Postby hawksfan896 » Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:28 pm

Also, a bad or inexperienced QB can sometimes help out a good WRs stats. If you don't really know what you're doing your instinct is going to be to force feed your best WR. I think that's the main thing that happened to Boldin last year. Leads to a lot of 3-and-outs for the offense and picks for the QB, but fantasy-wise a good receiver can really shine in an inept offense.
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Postby DraftDodger » Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:38 pm

It can work both ways. You can also have a team where none of the WRs get impressive numbers but the QB is among the league leaders in TDs (think Tom Brady.)

For WRs, keep in mind that they're not hurt by a QB's fumbles and INTs, so that explains in part how a rookie QB can have horrible numbers but one of his WRs gets decent numbers.
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Postby Shai » Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:58 pm

deftdelivery wrote:To be frank, I really don't think this question is worthy of discussion. Your answer is as simple as looking at last year's stats: Boldin had a terrible QB last year in Jeff Blake, and finished in the top 10. Ward as well, with Tommy Maddox. They are ranked so high because...the stats speak for themselves...nothing else to it.
Well, it's fine to be frank if you have something to say. Saying that it's as simple as looking at last years stats is ridiculus. In case you haven't noticed the rankings have changed a lot from last year to this year, and I'm sure they'll look different next year. Accepting last years stats at face value when you draft is a sure way to set yourself up for a losing season. Many of this years studs came out of nowhere last year. Many of the previous years studs were a bust last year. Boldin's numbers were skewd due to a tremendous game against Detroit in the first week. I certainly wouldn't rate him 6th based on his numbers alone. I try to take everything into consideration when I rank the players. Last years numbers are only part of it. Questionable QBs,and difficult schedules are a concern. I feel it was a valid question. If you are happy with just using last years stats, by all means stick to them. ;)


Thanks to the rest of you for answering. It helps knowing WHY things factor the way they do. Some of the write-ups on the QBs sound pretty bad, and it's hard to accept the high ranking the WRs get without a little deeper understanding of the reasoning. You've brought up some good points. Thanks again. :)
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