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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:06 pm

I think there are 4 elite WR - not 3. TO had a bad yr last yr. Look at his stats from 2000 on and tell me this guy isnt an elite WR. Most people actually had him as either the #1 or #2 best WR last yr.

What happened last yr? Garcia was either out or playing with a bad back most of the yr - something that can easily affect Owens.

As for my rankings:
Moss - #1 all day
Holt - Bulgers fav target by far - led the league in # of times he was thrown to - amazing.
Harrison - decline is starting to concern me.
Owens - underrated by a lot of people because of a down yr where his QB was injured.

then a big step down to the next tier
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Postby aussieboy » Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:53 pm

Terrell Owens.
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what?

Postby migarvin » Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:30 pm

Ward is he has less talent than his #2 and #3 guy (Plax and Burress)


plax is burress. And ward has sick talent - he's over six feet and has 4.45 speed. he's also known as the best blocking receiver to ever play the game. That's talent
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Postby ColtsTD » Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:31 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Harrison - decline is starting to concern me.


What decline? Bc he had 94 catches instead of 143? :rolleyes:

Harrison isnt on the decline at all. Hes 31...thats not old. Especially for a WR....and ESPECIALLY for a WR who doesnt take hits. Harrison doesnt take many hits, barely any actually. Hes still the best WR in the game, and hes done stuff that Moss, Holt and ESPECIALLY TO, cant even touch.

TO is not one of the elite receivers in the league. You know him so well bc he runs his mouth all the time. Hes a showoff. Joe Horn, Derrick Mason, Steve Smith - these are guys that do the job BETTER than TO on a consitent basis. Even Anquan Boldin is looking to be better than TO, but im putting into consideration that it was his first season, so we gotta see if he can still produce. And he is hurt, but still a good receiver nonetheless.

TO would probly be #6-7 on my list.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:53 pm

ColtsTD wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Harrison - decline is starting to concern me.


What decline? Bc he had 94 catches instead of 143? :rolleyes:

Harrison isnt on the decline at all. Hes 31...thats not old. Especially for a WR....and ESPECIALLY for a WR who doesnt take hits. Harrison doesnt take many hits, barely any actually. Hes still the best WR in the game, and hes done stuff that Moss, Holt and ESPECIALLY TO, cant even touch.

TO is not one of the elite receivers in the league. You know him so well bc he runs his mouth all the time. Hes a showoff. Joe Horn, Derrick Mason, Steve Smith - these are guys that do the job BETTER than TO on a consitent basis. Even Anquan Boldin is looking to be better than TO, but im putting into consideration that it was his first season, so we gotta see if he can still produce. And he is hurt, but still a good receiver nonetheless.

TO would probly be #6-7 on my list.


Welcome to the Cafe ColtsTD ;-D

Lets go back for a minute to Marvelous Marv... You chose to use the 143 receptions stat from 2002 - any reason why? I guess Id rather look at the rest of his career where he didnt come within 30 receptions of that total once (well - there was a 28 catch difference from his 1999 stats, but whos counting). Im gonna say he doesnt come close to 143 again - ever. That was a career yr my friend. By the way - wasnt it also the yr Edge was out? :-?

Anyway - dont get me wrong - Marv is the man - you cant argue that. My concern for a decline is the emergence of a solid #2 WR in Wayne and a fully healthy Edge who could easily take away some looks that Marv has gotten over the last couple yrs. You dont think its interesting that Wayne emerges as a solid 60-70 reception WR and Edge has a full yr and Marv's receptions plummett 50 catches?

As for Owens, I think you might have a bit of a bias against him - maybe. :-b

I know him because of his stats - not his mouth. Ive never really cared about what a player does or says or dances in the endzone or whatever. Its all about the numbers. Hell - If I really cared about that stuff I would have to pass on half the WRs in the league.
You talked about TO being a showoff then in your very next sentence recommended Joe Horn. :-?
Maybe consistancy for me goes back further than 1 yr.

Put down the Hateraid :-b

Once again - welcome to the Cafe!
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Postby TheRawDAWG » Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:14 pm

I'm definately NOT on the TO bandwagon. I don't think he'll have a good year(by his standards). He doesn't have good hands and McNabb isn't an accurate passer. Not to mention the fact Reid spreads the ball around. Plus, the whole league knows TO wants the ball. He'll have 4 guys covering him on every play (Just an exageration).

As for who I think will be the number 4 receiver this year? Santana Moss. Laugh it up gentlemen. I think he'll have a huge year with Penny there and McCariens taking some coverage away. Plus in league that award points for return yards and TDs (which mine does) he's an absolute STUD!!
So they weren't the best...and may have ended the worst. SO WHAT!
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:31 pm

TheRawDAWG wrote:I'm definately NOT on the TO bandwagon. I don't think he'll have a good year(by his standards). He doesn't have good hands and McNabb isn't an accurate passer. Not to mention the fact Reid spreads the ball around. Plus, the whole league knows TO wants the ball. He'll have 4 guys covering him on every play (Just an exageration).

As for who I think will be the number 4 receiver this year? Santana Moss. Laugh it up gentlemen. I think he'll have a huge year with Penny there and McCariens taking some coverage away. Plus in league that award points for return yards and TDs (which mine does) he's an absolute STUD!!


TO doesnt have good hands? Other than last yr can you give me some examples?

I thought the rest of the league new TO wanted the ball the last 4 yrs, and they really havent stopped him yet - what makes this yr any different?

As for SMoss - I can see him breaking the top 5 this yr, but Im not betting he will. Extremely talented though - definitely a possibility with a healthy Penny and a solid #2 in McCaerins. The question I have is about his return duties - am I mistaken in thinking Edwards isnt going to risk him in that role this yr due to his upgraded role in the offense?
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Postby TheRawDAWG » Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:16 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
TheRawDAWG wrote:I'm definately NOT on the TO bandwagon. I don't think he'll have a good year(by his standards). He doesn't have good hands and McNabb isn't an accurate passer. Not to mention the fact Reid spreads the ball around. Plus, the whole league knows TO wants the ball. He'll have 4 guys covering him on every play (Just an exageration).

As for who I think will be the number 4 receiver this year? Santana Moss. Laugh it up gentlemen. I think he'll have a huge year with Penny there and McCariens taking some coverage away. Plus in league that award points for return yards and TDs (which mine does) he's an absolute STUD!!


TO doesnt have good hands? Other than last yr can you give me some examples?

I thought the rest of the league new TO wanted the ball the last 4 yrs, and they really havent stopped him yet - what makes this yr any different?

As for SMoss - I can see him breaking the top 5 this yr, but Im not betting he will. Extremely talented though - definitely a possibility with a healthy Penny and a solid #2 in McCaerins. The question I have is about his return duties - am I mistaken in thinking Edwards isnt going to risk him in that role this yr due to his upgraded role in the offense?


First, I'll agree with you that Edwards shouldn't use Moss as a return man. But, I haven't heard anything as of yet stating he will reduce him in this role. Sanders was the best corner in the league for years and his teams always stuck him out there on PRs. So I don't think it's a stretch to believe Moss will be out there returning again this year.

As for TO not having great hands, I really don't watch 49er games so I can't give specific examples. I just heard guys on TV talking about him having trouble focusing sometimes and dropping catchable passes. And the rest of the league knew he wanted the ball the last 4 years-true. But there is so much hype about him this year I'm sure defences wont want to let him do his thing.

Also, you didn't have anything to say about McNabb not being an accurate passer and Reid's likeness for spreading the ball. Does this mean you agree with those assesments? If so how can you expect TO to be a top 4 receiver?

as a side note I wouldn't be surprised if TO did do well. But, like you said about Moss, I'm not betting on it. Especially with him being drafted in the second round most of the time. And even ahead of guys like Marv and Holt. The hype machine has gone too far.
So they weren't the best...and may have ended the worst. SO WHAT!
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Postby ColtsTD » Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:57 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
Welcome to the Cafe ColtsTD ;-D

Lets go back for a minute to Marvelous Marv... You chose to use the 143 receptions stat from 2002 - any reason why? I guess Id rather look at the rest of his career where he didnt come within 30 receptions of that total once (well - there was a 28 catch difference from his 1999 stats, but whos counting). Im gonna say he doesnt come close to 143 again - ever. That was a career yr my friend. By the way - wasnt it also the yr Edge was out? :-?

Anyway - dont get me wrong - Marv is the man - you cant argue that. My concern for a decline is the emergence of a solid #2 WR in Wayne and a fully healthy Edge who could easily take away some looks that Marv has gotten over the last couple yrs. You dont think its interesting that Wayne emerges as a solid 60-70 reception WR and Edge has a full yr and Marv's receptions plummett 50 catches?

As for Owens, I think you might have a bit of a bias against him - maybe. :-b

I know him because of his stats - not his mouth. Ive never really cared about what a player does or says or dances in the endzone or whatever. Its all about the numbers. Hell - If I really cared about that stuff I would have to pass on half the WRs in the league.
You talked about TO being a showoff then in your very next sentence recommended Joe Horn. :-?
Maybe consistancy for me goes back further than 1 yr.

Put down the Hateraid :-b

Once again - welcome to the Cafe!


OK? He didnt come within 30 receptions on 143 the rest of his career? You know why? Bc 143 receptions is the league RECORD! OF COURSE IT WAS A CAREER YEAR! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!? And he didnt just break the record, he shattered that bitch. Of course he wouldnt get close to it ever again, but has anyone else come close to 143 in the history of the NFL? No.

And its not like Harrison just came out of nowhere. He had 3 consecutive years with 100 receptions before that, once he started getting the ball more.

And Wayne is a good receiver, but he wont get the looks Harrison will get bc, well....hes Marvin Harrison. And Edge is healthy, so what? Look at 99. Harrison had 115 catches for 1600+ yards and 7 scores....and wasnt that Edge's rookie year?

Not satisfied? The next season Harrison had 102 catches for 1400+ yards, and 4 TDs. The next(this is the season when James got hurt) he had 109 for 1500+ yards and 5 scores.

Now getting Edge back will only HELP Harrison. Edge's presence alone opens up the play action, and thats when Manning is deadly.

Not to mention Harrison is the biggest stand-up WR in the league, the guy you can trust in the clutch, the guy who brings his A game to preseason games and playoffs games, never says, "GIVE ME THE DAMN BALL!", even though he DESERVES the ball more than Meshawn(who got his words spit back in his face on MNF last year) or TO. I wouldnt want any other WR on my team...
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Postby Tiki » Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:09 pm

TO....Ward CJ ;-D
Keep it lit.
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