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MIKL draft results (good keeper league cheatsheet)

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Postby Mookie4ever » Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:18 pm

I don't know what they are arguing about but I agree with Cornbread.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:19 pm

Free Bagel wrote:[Ki-jana Carter--drafted as the starter.

Rashaan Salaam--drafted as the starter.

Lawrence Phillips, Tim Biakabatuka, Curtis Enis, Kareem Abdul Jabar, Thomas Jones, William Green, etc etc.

All these guys were just as sure fire to be the starter as KJ, and several of them were in better situations team-wise. The Rams had just had probowl years from Bettis and needed to replace him, the Panthers went to the NFC Championship, the Browns made the playoffs, etc.


You might want to go back and check those assumptions about those players.

Carter- drafted in 1995 - sat out entire yr. Played backup to Garrison Hearst in 1996. Simialr situation to KJones?

Rashaan Salaam - 1000+yds, 10 tds his rookie yr

Biakabatuka - backup to AJohnson his rookie yr. Similar situation to KJones?

Enis - Was a rookie holdout because of a contract dispute. Played in a RBBC on a 4-12 team his rookie yr. Similar situation to KJones?

Abdul - Jabar - 1000+yds, 11 td rookie yr.

TJones - was backup to Pittman. Similar situation to KJones?

Lawrence Phillips and William Green seem to be the only ones who fill the bill that rookie RBs dont succeedd when placed into situations where they have the chance to succeed immediately and have failed. Im gonna say KJones doesnt have the same baggage as those two.

Anyone else you want to compare to KJones or have you seen the futility of your argument yet?
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Postby migarvin » Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:23 pm

Before bagel and cornbread fight over who has the better bread here's a pretty nice insight.

I"ve noticed that the talent level becomes more ambigous during round 5. I feel that is the case in every draft. I too think VHAWK had the best draft (i dont know what King was thinking drafting 3 rb's first 3 rounds but can only start 2!) because his wideouts are good. There is a significant dropoff after chambers, porter, mcareins; not that receivers won't step up but its not as easy to predict. I thikn Vhawks team is by far the best becasue not only did he draft for the scoring system (1 qb, 2 rb, 3 wdrs) but he took guys who shoudl blow up. Rogers should be a number one this year, chambers is a great # 2 and either stallworth or travis taylor are destined for 1,000 yards and 8 scores.

i like the fact that hawk had to explain why he picked who he did - when he clearly has the best team. Its partly becasue there is a similar dropoff in talent in the 5th round similar to the end of the first when the top 6 backs are off the board. But lets not forget that vhawk drafted players that should logically break out (either travis or donte) and players taht fit the scoring system


How is cuna's team close to vhawks? his number one receiver (bruce) will be worse than whoever settles as hawks 3rd receiver. Luckily for him, brandon lloyd should have a solid 70 catches and 8 or 900 yards
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Postby MrTwo94 » Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:30 pm

VHawk15 wrote:I'm really liking my trio of LT, Culpepper, and Westbrook. Most believe LT is the best player in keeper leagues this year, and in our scoring system last year, Culpepper was a top 6 player. Also, with Buckhalter out of the picture, I think Westbrook is getting closer and closer to being a top 20 player overall.

Also, Rogers, Chambers, and Stallworth at WR offer a good balance between production and potential for me. And then I think I'm pretty well off at the other positions, with Boo, Vandy, and Dallas.


This is the team that stood out immediately to me as the best. Taking a QB in the 2nd round is risky but it worked out great for you. Not only is this team great this year, but the keepers are badass. Good job.
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Postby The Guru » Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:32 pm

When do Free Bagel and Cornbread play each other? That match should be interesting. ;-)

You 2 should do a PB match.

BTW, I agree with Free Bagel and his points.
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Postby IRON CHEF » Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:47 pm

The Guru wrote:When do Free Bagel and Cornbread play each other? That match should be interesting. ;-)

You 2 should do a PB match.

BTW, I agree with Free Bagel and his points.


Yeah it should be interested to see who wins that matchup.

Nice healthy debate guys. ;-D
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Postby Free Bagel » Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:52 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
Carter- drafted in 1995 - sat out entire yr. Played backup to Garrison Hearst in 1996. Simialr situation to KJones?

Biakabatuka - backup to AJohnson his rookie yr. Similar situation to KJones?

Enis - Was a rookie holdout because of a contract dispute. Played in a RBBC on a 4-12 team his rookie yr. Similar situation to KJones?

TJones - was backup to Pittman. Similar situation to KJones?


That's my point entirely. How do you know that KJ is going to be the unquestioned starter? With all those guys you listed (plus Wheatley and Avery), they were drafted, and everyone just assumed they would be the unquestioned starter much like you're doing for KJ. They didn't start because they didn't do well enough, the same could happen to KJ.

Do you think the Bears were planning on doing a RBBC when they drafted a RB #5 overall? No--Enis just sucked in the NFL. Do you think the Cards were planning on playing Michael Pittman, who had been sitting on their Bench for 2 years and had 300 total career rushing yards, when they drafted Thomas Jones in the top 10? No--Jones just didn't pan out. And Hearst wasn't even on the Bengals for Carter's rookie year (95)...

Bottom line is when players are drafted people often assume they're gonna see the playing field alot, but that's not always the case. So when you count on 3 to do so you would think you'd want to back them up with a few guys you KNOW are going to start just in case...Your team could easily be great this year, but it could also easily set the record for fewest points I've ever seen in a fantasy league if you end up having to start players that don't even see the field much.
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Postby Free Bagel » Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:57 pm

The JJ draft back before Eddie went to Dallas is a good example of what I'm talking about.

The idea was to wait till the 4th/5th to get your #2 RB and take JJ as that. JJ was in a much better situation than KJ, yet the strategy still entailed stacking up on RB's later to back up JJ since you were starting a rookie.

You essentially did the JJ draft, with a player in a worse situation, 3 times over, without taking the backups.
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Postby migarvin » Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:00 pm

I'm tired of hearing this argument so lets make a couple of things clear. Cornbread is risking his season on 3 rookies, which is not a greatest idea but not any different than half the other fantasy strategies out there. But for Bagel to argue that its not a good idea based on rookie performances from the past several years (with conflicting data) is not persuading anyone.

to narrow this down a bit more. Winslow is not your typical rookie, either is fitz. And kjones is, as corn said, going to one of the most favorable situations for a rookie rb in years. He had a similar grade to duckett and green (green was moderately successfull - just shy of 1,000 yards and had 6 td's, not bad fantasy production) but kjones has an o-line that ownership invested millions in and first round talent along with 2 ill receivers to stretch the field. Fitz will struggle this year but he clearly had one of the best college careers ever and is special talent. Will he have an up and down year? Most likely

The winslow argument is futile because i'm sure bagel would have taken him a couple of roudns later. ABsolutely a top 10 tightend talent and shoudl be top 5 behind heap, gonzo, shockey


Perhaps, 3 of thse supposed predictions will not come to fruition, but its not any bigger of a risk becasue they're rookies than selecting playes in new sistuations: duce, westbrook, chris brown, t owens, rudi johnson, t jones, henry and mcgahee, etc...
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Postby Buckychudd » Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:09 pm

migarvin wrote:(i dont know what King was thinking drafting 3 rb's first 3 rounds but can only start 2!)

KingGhidra wrote:I agreed beforehand to swap 1st and 2nd round picks with MCG321, so his first two are actually my picks and vice versa.

That should explain it.....
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