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Tim Brown as Tampa's No. 2 WR

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Tim Brown as Tampa's No. 2 WR

Postby Warpigs » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:37 am

Buccaneers: Brown ahead of Clayton

by Fanball Staff - Fanball.com
Wednesday, August 25, 2004

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Buccaneers' head coach Jon Gruden promised Tim Brown that he would be featured as top-three wide receiver this season. And barring an unexpected return by holdout Keenan McCardell, it appears that Brown will be the No. 2 wideout opposite Joey Galloway. That means rookie Michael Clayton will most likely be the No. 3 receiver, which is fine with him. "I'm not going to complain about Tim Brown playing more than me, taking away from my playing time because it's only a situation I can learn from," Clayton told the Orlando Sentinel on Tuesday.

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The last time Brown played in Gruden's offense (with the Raiders), he finished with 1,165 yards and nine touchdowns. However, Brown is 38 years old and is surrounded by new teammates. In other words, we don't have high hopes for him as a fantasy receiver this season.
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Postby King Titan » Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:11 am

If you a Bucs fan dosen't this scare you? Brown your #2?
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Postby purestrength » Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:22 am

I happened to see a couple Oakland games on TV last season and my main memory of those games was how badly Tim Brown sucked. He dropped a wide-open pass in the end zone and just looked like a shell of his former self.

To top it off, he had a horrible attitude last year. On every sports highlight show, you could see him shooting off his big mouth about how bad of a coach Callahan was.

This will be a bad move for Tampa Bay, IMHO.
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Postby zombiez » Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:28 am

it's a shame this man couldn't retire a raider, and if he's gonna be the number 2 wideout for the bucs, then its gonna be a long year for bucs fans
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Postby wizbang » Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:58 am

I think Gruden has lost his mind to a large degree.

His decisions at WR and RB have been mind boggling. I also question their moves on defense to a degree. On one side of the ball he can't get enough old guys and on the other he lets two go and is willing to overpay a young player like Ian Gold who is coming off major injury. Strange.

Reviewing their WR and RB positions.

1. Thomas Jones. This dates back to the second half of last season. With Pittman beating his wife on a fairly regular basis and Tampa out of the playoffs (and even when on the fringe) Gruden should have given Jones a much bigger chance to prove himself. Even when he did put Jones in the game he still subbed Pittman on most passing downs. Especially late in the season TJ should have received ALL of the looks. In his limited chances TJ looks extremely good. Then at the end of the season he lets the guy walk. The only point I'll grant is that Chicago paid a lot for a guy with such a sketchy history.

2. Garner. Don't get me wrong Charlie is the perfect fit for Tampa. However, he's also ninety four billion years old and never has been very durable. Gruden's solution? Keep Pittman, his punching bag wife and four game suspension around. Oh that and rely on the ever mediocre and now terminally injured Mike Alstott.

3. Pittman. The guy is nothing special even when healthy and with all the issues around him should have been tagged as the least attractive solution. Instead I suspect he'll get a good share of the carries after spending 4 weeks thinking about how he can continue to beat his wife without the NFL finding out.

WR

1. Keyshawn. I don't care what anybody says... it's the coaches JOB to make things work with their star players. Keyshawn is not a total stud but if managed properly is FAR better than Galloway. The best evidence of this is that Parcels wanted Keyshawn so badly. IMO, that says a lot about his coachability.

2. Galloway. Has been, never was, whatever you want to say this guy should not be a #1 WR on ANY NFL football team.

3. Clayton. I'm not sold on this guy but if you take him #1 (in the top 15 no less) then don't saddle him behind a washed up Tim Brown.

4. McCardell. Don't know who's fault this is since I haven't followed it close enough. It seems that Gruden found him expendible after the Galloway "acquisition". I would take a PRODUCTIVE McCardell over 30 Galloways any day of the week and twice on Super Tuesdays.

5. Tim Brown. Gruden GAURANTEED this scrub a Top 3 role. What the hell? Brown may have been something 2 years ago when Gruden was in Oakland but he looked absolutely aweful last season and the one before. I'll give you last season since the O had tanked it but even in their SB run Brown was a mediocre #3 WR. A big part of that offense sucking last year was the fact that with Porter hurt they had to rely on this bottom feeder so much.

6. Charles Lee. I admit that I don't know how badly he is hurt. HOWEVER, this guy looks like a total stud. He impressed the hell out of me last year. If I were Gruden I would have McCardell, Clayton and Lee as my Top 3 WRs this year. I would have NEVER let the Keyshawn thing happen but if it had I would have only acquired one of Galloway or Brown and they would be my #4.

Am I the only one who thinks that T.Jones-McCardell-Lee-Clayton-Keyshawn is enormously better than Garner-Galloway-Brown-Clayton??????????

Actually, if you look at what he did in Oakland there seems to be a trend. Lucky for him he bailed on the raiders before the geriatric crew came crashing to a halt.
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Postby LynchPin » Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:20 pm

King Titan wrote:If you a Bucs fan dosen't this scare you? Brown your #2?


Yes. I have to admit I'm a bit skeptical though. Does anyone honestly believe Gruden is not going to put the best players on the field? If Clayton is blowing away Brown in practice I don't think Gruden is going to possibly cost himself a game or two by keeping Brown on the field.

Wizbang - The problem with Thomas Jones is Gruden gave him too much of a chance. In the last 4 games of the season he rushed 74 times for 360 yards (4.8 ypc). He convinced the Bears he was worth paying feature back money and the Bucs couldn't afford to keep him.

And I don't know how you can try to blame Gruden for McCardell's holdout. The Bucs gave him the best contract offer of any team, he signed it, and now he wants 2x the money even though he's 34 and got 2 years left on the contract.
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Postby Warpigs » Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:25 pm

wizbang wrote:Oh that and rely on the ever mediocre and now terminally injured Mike Alstott.


Dude, you lost me at Alstott. Ever mediocre? Know any other FBs that are as ingrained as part of the offense as Alstott is? The guy racks in TDs, can block and is an asset to the whole team. I agreed with your overall statement, but dissing Alstott was something that turned me off to your arguement.
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Postby LynchPin » Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:32 pm

Warpigs wrote:
wizbang wrote: I agreed with your overall statement, but dissing Alstott was something that turned me off to your arguement.


Plus, I don't know how anyone could refer to him as "terminally injured" when he had only missed 4 games in 7 years prior to last year.
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Postby wizbang » Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:55 pm

Two points on Alstott.

1. Ever mediocre. I say that not as a FB but as a Tailback (if he were called on to replace Garner fulltime). IMO he has never been used as a true fullback. Living in Lions country and having a stud FB in Schlesinger who consistently lowers the boom on LBs (Urlacher is flat out scared of Schlesinger) only to see Alstott go to the probowl for a position he only plays about 10 snaps a game is irritating. I love listening to Spielman do their preseason games and once a year he goes off on a rant about Alstott making the probowl as a FB. Running ability wise I think Alstott is pretty mediocre for a tailback.

2. When I say terminally injured I say that based on articles I have read about his injury last season (they have suggested that his career could end very quickly). Granted the articles are a bit old now so this may not be accurate any longer. This was not a comment on his past durability because as pointed out he had been very durable in past seasons.
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Postby Warpigs » Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:01 pm

wizbang wrote:Two points on Alstott.

1. Ever mediocre. I say that not as a FB but as a Tailback (if he were called on to replace Garner fulltime). IMO he has never been used as a true fullback. Living in Lions country and having a stud FB in Schlesinger who consistently lowers the boom on LBs (Urlacher is flat out scared of Schlesinger) only to see Alstott go to the probowl for a position he only plays about 10 snaps a game is irritating. I love listening to Spielman do their preseason games and once a year he goes off on a rant about Alstott making the probowl as a FB. Running ability wise I think Alstott is pretty mediocre for a tailback.


The thing is, TB hasn't attempted to use Alstott as the primary HB. Looking at the role Alstott has played for the team -- which may be untraditional -- he has been pretty effective overall and a main cog for the offense. For a long while, traditionalists looked at players like Mike Vick, McNabb and Culpepper as non-typical QBs. They don't sit in the pocket all day and chuck the ball all over the place. However, the NFL has adjusted its views on them, and all three will finish their career with uncontested Pro Bowl berths. There's a difference between not doing the job and revolutionalizing the position. Honestly, I predict more Alstott-like FBs will find their way into NFL starting roles over the next five to ten years.
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