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Aikman calls for change in defensive/offensive ratings

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Postby zombiez » Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:15 am

MadScott wrote:
jumpman8828 wrote:
Manja wrote:
jumpman8828 wrote:I agree. It always got me a little angry when a team like the Cowboys or something was advertised in the paper as the "top defensive team" because of the yardage...when teams New England were shutting down opponents and not letting them score (which is, after all, more important than if you give up X amount of yards).


The Cowboys were near the top in every category except for turnovers (and sacks, I know they lacked in both but not sure what their ranking was), so you have to give them some credit.


True, but to me the top defense should be the one that doesn't let their opponents score.
And according to Aikman's proposal it sounds like all of this would be factored in to determine who is #1 across the board. Nice idea. Let's see if it will happen. We can put a man on the moon but we can't decide on a college football playoff system or who the true #1 defense/offense is in the NFL.
.....you really beleived we put a man on the moon?? :-°
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Postby 34=Sweetness » Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:43 am

Zombiez wrote:
MadScott wrote:
jumpman8828 wrote:
Manja wrote:
jumpman8828 wrote:I agree. It always got me a little angry when a team like the Cowboys or something was advertised in the paper as the "top defensive team" because of the yardage...when teams New England were shutting down opponents and not letting them score (which is, after all, more important than if you give up X amount of yards).


The Cowboys were near the top in every category except for turnovers (and sacks, I know they lacked in both but not sure what their ranking was), so you have to give them some credit.


True, but to me the top defense should be the one that doesn't let their opponents score.
And according to Aikman's proposal it sounds like all of this would be factored in to determine who is #1 across the board. Nice idea. Let's see if it will happen. We can put a man on the moon but we can't decide on a college football playoff system or who the true #1 defense/offense is in the NFL.
.....you really beleived we put a man on the moon?? :-°
Oh god, you're not one of those conspiracy weirdos are you? :rollseyes:
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Postby eaglesrule » Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:01 am

I always thought it was dumb that the number one defense wasn;t really considered to be the one that allowed the fewest points. considering that ultimately, it is really the only defensive stat that matters. You are preventing the yards so you prevent the points -- definitely a progression there IMO.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:14 am

What practical difference does it make?

Does it have an effect on scheduling or on anything important? Does it effect some award?

In short: who cares how the NFL ranks defences?
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Postby maddog60 » Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:33 am

This is definitely a good idea. I find it hard to agree with a man who was the nemisis of my favorite team for so many years, but the current system is garbage, and his idea is just sound and logical. I'm sure the Eagles wouldnt mind seeing where they're defense ranked under a better system seeing how they gave up a lot of yards, but let up one of the fewest point totals. I'd also be interested in seeing how KC ranks under a more comprehensive system.

It always seemed odd to me that yards allowed mattered more fo defenses than points scored. I'd much rather prefer a defense that let up a 1000 yards per game but an average of 3 points per game, as opposed to well, any other defense out there right now. However, such a defense would be atrocious under the current system. It makes no sense. If your defense does not allow the opponent to ever score a single point, they should be able to give up all the points they want and still be #1.
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Postby BrutallyHuge » Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:38 am

Mookie4ever wrote:What practical difference does it make?

Does it have an effect on scheduling or on anything important? Does it effect some award?

In short: who cares how the NFL ranks defences?


So we shouldn't count any stats?

If Peyton breaks Marino's single season record, it's not important,right? There's no reward, right?
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Postby Mookie4ever » Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:58 am

BrutallyHuge wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:What practical difference does it make?

Does it have an effect on scheduling or on anything important? Does it effect some award?

In short: who cares how the NFL ranks defences?


So we shouldn't count any stats?

If Peyton breaks Marino's single season record, it's not important,right? There's no reward, right?


That's a complete non-sequitur. Who ever said don't keep track of stats? Who ever said that records were not important?

Mine was actually a legit question. Does the NFL base any scheduling decisions based on their defensive rankings? I don't think that they do. If that is the case then who cares what the "official" NFL rankings are?

We can come up with our own rankings or use our own stats. Why not look at these rankings instead?

MLB doesn't use OPS for anything. That doesn't mean that we can't keep track of OPS and use it as a valuable tool in fantasy and use it to rank hitters.

So tell me, why it is important how the NFL ranks defences?
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Postby KingGhidra » Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:41 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:
So tell me, why it is important how the NFL ranks defences?


The question that was posed to you is just as valid. Why is it important how many passing yards Payton Manning had last year? It doesn't affect the schedule or anything the NFL does except for HOF voting at the end of a career. You need to re-read Aikman's article, he gives you reasons why it should be changed. It has very little to do with game to game football operations.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:10 pm

KingGhidra wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:
So tell me, why it is important how the NFL ranks defences?


The question that was posed to you is just as valid. Why is it important how many passing yards Payton Manning had last year? It doesn't affect the schedule or anything the NFL does except for HOF voting at the end of a career. You need to re-read Aikman's article, he gives you reasons why it should be changed. It has very little to do with game to game football operations.


I can't believe that you are going to make me say something good about Billy Beane and Bill James. As much as I hate what they have done to the game of baseball there is one good thing that they have accomplished and that is getting people to see past the traditional stats to what is really important to the game.

James saw that OBP was much more important than BA - something that was seen by other a long time ago but the idea of sabermetrics popularized the idea that traditional stats are often misleading.

I completely disagree with this statement made by Aikman:

Changing the way we measure these statistics would not only be for the fans' benefit. In fact, it's more for the benefit of assistant coaches around the league. A lot of coaches get jobs based on what their units do statistically. There are a lot of offensive coordinators around the league that really want to throw the ball around, because it's more appealing -- it looks better and gets them noticed a little bit more.


There is no way that coaches are measured at all by how the NFL ranks defenses. In fact attempts to develop sabermetrics for football have failed because the game is much more complex and everybody know that it is a results oriented game and coaches are not measures on stats as much as outcomes and on field performance. Link

I do not believe that anyone really cares about how the NFL ranks defences. Any time I go to place a bet even I check how well the teams have fared against the run, against the pass and who their competition has been. Fantasy owners do the same, as do the real owners when evaluating their coaches. Look at how much time and effort goes into ranking college teams. When you come down to it the NFL defense rankings are about as important as the espn power polls.

Now I have to get back to one of the worst days of my life, I am going through an audit right now and I just wasted my smoke break responding to your post.
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Postby Manja » Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:17 pm

jumpman8828 wrote:
Manja wrote:
jumpman8828 wrote:I agree. It always got me a little angry when a team like the Cowboys or something was advertised in the paper as the "top defensive team" because of the yardage...when teams New England were shutting down opponents and not letting them score (which is, after all, more important than if you give up X amount of yards).


The Cowboys were near the top in every category except for turnovers (and sacks, I know they lacked in both but not sure what their ranking was), so you have to give them some credit.


True, but to me the top defense should be the one that doesn't let their opponents score.


The 'Boys were number three in that category..
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