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IT HAS BEGUN!!!

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Postby Roseman » Thu Mar 20, 2003 3:37 pm

I am from Canada so we are not envolved (yet) but here is hoping that those envolved do make it home safe on either side.

But on a lighter note: What did the Irish and the Iraqi's have in common about the 17th of March.



Both knew they were going to get Hammered!!!!!
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Postby KnowNothing » Thu Mar 20, 2003 3:48 pm

WAR
-- Edwin Starr


Oh no-there's got to be a better way
Say it again
There's got to be a better way-yeah
What is it good for?
War has caused unrest
Among the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants to die?
War-huh
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again
War-huh
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Yeah
War-I despise
'Cos it means destruction
Of innocent lives
War means tears
To thousands of mothers how
When their sons go off to fight
And lose their lives
I said
War-huh
It's an enemy of all mankind
No point of war
'Cos you're a man
(Repeat)
Give it to me one time-now
Give it to me one time-now
War has shattered
Many young men's dreams
We've got no place for it today
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But Lord, there's just got to be a better way
It ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War
Friend only to the undertaker
War
War
War-Good God, now
Now
Give it to me one time now
Now now
What is it good for?
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Postby Slingblade » Thu Mar 20, 2003 5:06 pm

KnowNothing, there is no better way!!!!


To Saddam:
Put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.
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Postby KnowNothing » Thu Mar 20, 2003 6:33 pm

There is no better way to what?

Just like every other war, this one will profit the rich and screw those who aren't. Bush says that this has nothing to do with oil, he just wants to replace Hussien with a "good guy." Mark my words, a few years from now we'll be having the same problems with whoever is in Iraq, meanwhile the Bush family will still be making their millions with all their stock in the oil industry.
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Postby KnowNothing » Thu Mar 20, 2003 6:35 pm

We all like playing games on this site. Here's a fun one:


This is a list of the countries bombed by the US after the second world war...

Korea 1950-53

China 1950-53

Guatemala 1954

Indonesia 1958

Cuba 1959-60

Guatemala 1960

Congo 1964

Laos 1964-73

Peru 1965

Vietnam 1961-73

Cambodia 1969-70

Guatemala 1967-69

Granada 1983

Líbia 1986

El Salvador anos 80

Nicaragua anos 80

Panama 1989

Iraq 1991-____

Sudan 1998

Afghanistan 1998

Yugoslávia 1999

Afghanistan 2001


Question:


In how many of this countries did the bombing result in the rise of
Democratic Governments that respect human rights?


Choose an answer :


(a) 0

(b) zero

(c) none

(d) not even one

(e) a whole number in between -1 and 1


I'll post the results in a few days. Good luck to everyone!
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Postby VIPER » Thu Mar 20, 2003 7:58 pm

The answer might be zero but play this game.....what would the world be like if we stood back and did nothing. ;-7



"To whom much is given ....Much is required!"
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Postby SiouxCitySavages » Thu Mar 20, 2003 8:52 pm

I have to disagree with you KnowNothing......It doesn't matter what you read in your little history book there......The U.S. is not in this for OIL.....You should follow up on your current events and actually look at what's been goin on......Sure, this war may benefit the U.S.A., but don't forget what happened on 9/11.....There is more at stake here than the cost of oil...So, if you wanna burn a flag, do it somewhere else.....You are starting to sound like Jane Fonda
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Postby Slingblade » Thu Mar 20, 2003 9:29 pm

SiouxCitySavages wrote:I have to disagree with you KnowNothing......It doesn't matter what you read in your little history book there......The U.S. is not in this for OIL.....You should follow up on your current events and actually look at what's been goin on......Sure, this war may benefit the U.S.A., but don't forget what happened on 9/11.....There is more at stake here than the cost of oil...So, if you wanna burn a flag, do it somewhere else.....You are starting to sound like Jane Fonda


EXACTLY!!!!!



Country Song By:Darryl Worley
I hear people saying we don't need this war
I say there's some things worth fighting for
What about our freedom and this piece of ground?
We didn't get to keep 'em by backing down
They say we don't realize the mess we're getting in
Before you start preaching
Let me ask you this my friend

CHORUS 1
Have you forgotten how it felt that day
To see your homeland under fire
And her people blown away?
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside
Going through a living hell
And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

They took all the footage off my T.V.
Said it's too disturbing for you and me
It'll just breed anger that's what the experts say
If it was up to me I'd show it every day
Some say this country's just out looking for a fight
After 9/11 man I'd have to say that's right

CHORUS 1
Have you forgotten how it felt that day
To see your homeland under fire
And her people blown away?
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside
Going through a living hell
And we vowed to get the ones behind Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

I've been there with the soldiers
Who've gone away to war
And you can bet that they remember
Just what they're fighting for

CHORUS 2
Have you forgotten all the people killed?
Yes, some went down like heroes in that Pennsylvania field
Have you forgotten about our Pentagon?
All the loved ones that we lost
And those left to carry on
Don't you tell me not to worry 'bout Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

Have you forgotten?
Have you forgotten?
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Postby KnowNothing » Fri Mar 21, 2003 12:32 pm

I don't understand what this war has to do with 9/11. There is no connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda.

"At the FBI, some investigators said they were baffled by the Bush administration's insistence on a solid link between Iraq and Osama bin Laden's network. 'We've been looking at this hard for more than a year and you know what, we just don't think it's there,' a goverment official said." -- James Risen and David Johnston, New York Times, February 2, 2003

"I am also very troubled by the way Bush officials have tried to justify this war on the grounds that Saddam is allied with Osama bin Laden or will be soon. There is simply no proof of that, and every time I hear them repeat it I think of the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. You don't take the country to war on the wings of a lie." -- Thomas Friedman, Pulitzer Prize-Winning Columnist, New York Times, February 19, 2002


Now I'm all for getting Saddam out of Iraq. He is defninitely a bad man. Anyone who sees murder and death as a way of solving problems and gaining power is terrible. But there are other ways to solve these issues instead of bombing and killing people. Whatever happened to inspections? Inspections worked before. They can work again:

"We did ascertain a 90-95 percent level of verified disarmament [including] the destruction or dismantling of every major factory associated with prohibited weapons manufacture, all significant items of production equipment, and the majority of weapons and agent produced by Iraq." -- Scott Ritter, former U.N. Weapons Inspector, Boston Globe, February 7, 2003

"Successful disarmament of Iraq is possible without Baghdad's active cooperation." -- Hans Blix, Chief U.N. Weapons Inspector, Reuters, February 7, 2003

More:

War with Iraq will kill up to 500,000 Iraqi civilians -- CBC: http://cbc.ca/stories/2002/11/12/iraqreport021112

War with Iraq will cost the US up to $1,600,000,000,000 -- Yale economist William Nordhaus: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/15850

And war with Iraq may even "supercharge requiting for al Qaeda." -- Gen. Wesley Clark, former NATO Supreme Commander: http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2002/10/17/zinni/


Now I'm not getting all my information from my history books. Although history has taught us that the US government doesn't care about the people of Iraq. In fact, the torture of Iraqi civialians by it's goverment, including the gassing of 5,000 Kurds, was done with the funding, support and under the watch of Ronald Reagan. We all remember who Reagan's vice-president was, right? The US didn't care then and it still doesn't. It's just using "the Iraqi people" as a cover. Because Bush is using these people as a cover to get what he wants--another foothold in the oil-rich Middle East--and is willing to sacrifice thousands of their lives to take down a dictator we helped put into power in the first place.


I'm not trying to get into a heated debate over any of this. I'm just presenting facts that get ignored. I'm also not trying to change anyone's mind, because I know how impossible that is. Everyone has their opinions, and eveyone should be respected for those. Even the people that I disagree with.


One more thing, then I'm outta here. Most people think that the loss of lives is just the price you have to pay for war, and it's worth it. Well, if someone came in your house and put a gun to a family members head saying that it's going to take this life to make our problems with Saddam go away, would that be a price you'd be willing to pay? I think a big problem that we have is that we don't see the civilians in Iraq as people. Humans. Families. Faces. Smiles. Tears. Men...Women...Children.


You guys are all great. I love this site and all the terrific advice I've received from eveyone. Remember, if we can't agree on all this war stuff, we can at least agree that the Bengals suck...right?
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Postby fntsyrookie » Fri Mar 21, 2003 12:56 pm

Knownothing, first of all I disagree with most of your views, but I do admire the way you present them. Very well put.

I do agree that it doesn't have anything to do with 9/11 per say, but more to do with enforcing U.N. resolutions that were passed by the world's community leaders against Saddam, that he has not obeyed. He's had 12 years to disarm and hasn't. You can't have a world organization running around creating mandates and resolutions, and then when they are not obeyed do nothing about it.

This passage cracks me up:

"We did ascertain a 90-95 percent level of verified disarmament [including] the destruction or dismantling of every major factory associated with prohibited weapons manufacture, all significant items of production equipment, and the majority of weapons and agent produced by Iraq." -- Scott Ritter, former U.N. Weapons Inspector, Boston Globe, February 7, 2003


Oh hey good job Scott!! 90-95% you say? Wow that's great!! Too bad the resolution wasn't for 90-95% disarmament huh? It was for total disarmement. Not 90-95% or a majority. If Saddam had complied with the world's wishes the 1st time, we wouldn't be over there now.

Now since we are already over there, a byproduct is going to be a democratic state. Does this benefit the US? Perhaps. But does this also benefit the rest of the world as well? I think so.

I agree that you're not gonna change my mind, and I'm not going to change yours. I do also agree that the Bengals suck (sorry Duke) ;-)
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