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Postby bagobonez » Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:41 am

maddog60 wrote:bagobonez, yards matter nothing, points are everything. I don't care how many yards an offense gets unless it puts points on the board it isn't being effective.

And what do you know:

2003 total TDs:

Philly: 23.4 Points per game, 43 TDs
Dallas: 18.1 Points per game, 31 TDs
Wash.: 17.9 ppg, 30 TDs
NYG: 15.2 ppg, 26 TDs

Have all the yards you want, but when it really counts scoring points is what an offense has to do, and the Eagles did that best. In fact, the margin by which they outscored the 2nd best NFC East offense in ppg was larger than the difference between all other 3 teams offenses. And this was a year where Philly's offense collapsed during the first 8 weeks.

Oh, and another thing. Philly had more yards per play by their offense last year than Dallas. (5.3 to 4.9). So despite getting more total yards, Philadelphia got more yards per play and scored about 5 more points every game on average. I think that clearly demonstrates which offense was better last year.


You're right points are what matter, not yards. I wonder how the Eagles score so many points without having to move the ball? I have your answer. Penalties. Same with their defense. Their defense yardage wise was ranked 20th, but they allowed alot fewer points. This just supports my conspiracy theory beliefs. The refs do not penalize Philly, thus making the yardage they DO get count even more, and then penalize the shit out of the Eagles' opponents, so the Eagles move the ball easily without getting the actual yardage accredited to them. THen on defense, the defense is bending and bending and bending until the opponent is threatening to score, and then the refs step in and make sure the opponent only gets a field goal, or kicks them out of FG range altogether.
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Postby Tyr » Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:27 am

Bag.. you just went from a relatively valid argument, to a completely ridiculous and off the wall rant. I don't think anybody is being force-fed pro philly propaganda by the media machine. I think people just realize that the 'boys aren't what they used to be.

In a year or two, I think Dallas will be picking up strength. Especially as JJ matures and learns from Eddie George. Vinny's career was over until Quincy got cut. Now that he's been forced back into a starting job, I think he's going to have a bit of trouble. He won't be as fast or as focused as he used to be. I don't think he'll be a failure, but I also don't think he'll live up to Quincy's game. I have nothing bad to say about Keyshawn - he's a great receiver, and should vastly improve Dallas' downfield threat.

Not bad. I think Dallas will give Washington a run for the money as the #2 team in the NFC East.

Philly, on the other hand, has been the #1 NFC East team for years. They have a legacy of getting into the playoffs and losing. That's what everyone knows and loves them for. With Buckhalter down, Westbrook will have a much harder time.. but they still have the explosiveness of the future stud to work with. They have a proven (although over rated) qb in McNabb, throwing to an amazing receiver. While we all hate TO's attitude, there's no arguing that he's an incredible player.

I think you're blowing the entire pro-philly conspiracy a bit out of proportion. Sit back and look at stats and facts instead of going on the home team bias. I'm a 'skins fan, and I have high hopes for Dallas. When we're not playing 'em, I'll be cheering JJ and Keyshawn. All of us NFC East fans hate Philly. Hell... even Philly fans hate Philly. :-b
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Postby 34=Sweetness » Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:27 am

bagobonez wrote:
maddog60 wrote:bagobonez, yards matter nothing, points are everything. I don't care how many yards an offense gets unless it puts points on the board it isn't being effective.

And what do you know:

2003 total TDs:

Philly: 23.4 Points per game, 43 TDs
Dallas: 18.1 Points per game, 31 TDs
Wash.: 17.9 ppg, 30 TDs
NYG: 15.2 ppg, 26 TDs

Have all the yards you want, but when it really counts scoring points is what an offense has to do, and the Eagles did that best. In fact, the margin by which they outscored the 2nd best NFC East offense in ppg was larger than the difference between all other 3 teams offenses. And this was a year where Philly's offense collapsed during the first 8 weeks.

Oh, and another thing. Philly had more yards per play by their offense last year than Dallas. (5.3 to 4.9). So despite getting more total yards, Philadelphia got more yards per play and scored about 5 more points every game on average. I think that clearly demonstrates which offense was better last year.


You're right points are what matter, not yards. I wonder how the Eagles score so many points without having to move the ball? I have your answer. Penalties. Same with their defense. Their defense yardage wise was ranked 20th, but they allowed alot fewer points. This just supports my conspiracy theory beliefs. The refs do not penalize Philly, thus making the yardage they DO get count even more, and then penalize the shit out of the Eagles' opponents, so the Eagles move the ball easily without getting the actual yardage accredited to them. THen on defense, the defense is bending and bending and bending until the opponent is threatening to score, and then the refs step in and make sure the opponent only gets a field goal, or kicks them out of FG range altogether.
Oh great, here comes the Eagles conspiracy argument. Bitter cowboys fan.....
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Postby BrutallyHuge » Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:28 am

Why oh why did you bump this retarded thread up again?
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Postby bagobonez » Thu Sep 02, 2004 9:03 am

Hey, you know what? At least I'm explaining why I think there is a conspiracy. I still haven't seen anyone that's been able to explain why only the Oakland Raiders were penalized more than Eagles' opponents collectively.

And why is it that the Eagles have the 18th ranked offense, 20th ranked defense, and they still go 12-4 and are the first seed in the NFC? How many times has a team that ranks in the bottom half of both O and D become the 1st seed in the conference?

I just want someone to explain that to me and then maybe I'll start looking at things from your point of view and decide that maybe there's not a conspiracy after all.
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Postby kanezfan11 » Thu Sep 02, 2004 9:11 am

proKrastinate wrote:the guy obvious likes the Titans, and has absolutely no respect for the Eagles. Fine, whatever. This topic has been beaten to the ground over and over again. No changing him. The only reason you guys keep seeing these posts? You respond to them. He might actually have some decent football knowledge if perhaps he were to get past the homerism. Or perhaps hes even right, but until he and the rest of the cafe just let it die it will result in the same.

So...let this thread rest in peace where it is. For the sake of the cafe, Titan, whether you are wrong or right only time will tell. We understand how you feel and thats fine. But it wont get anywhere to keep pushing the topic. After this much time you aren't going to change the minds of anyone.

So if you only do this because you get off on it, i guess you'll be satisfied because everyone seems to feel "required" to reply to your threads over...and over again. So please, EVERYONE (caps intended), keep replying. Your the ones letting it linger.
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Postby BrutallyHuge » Thu Sep 02, 2004 9:17 am

bagobonez wrote:And why is it that the Eagles have the 18th ranked offense, 20th ranked defense, and they still go 12-4 and are the first seed in the NFC? How many times has a team that ranks in the bottom half of both O and D become the 1st seed in the conference?


Maybe you should talk to Troy Aikman. He'll set you straight.

The criteria that you use for determining offensive and defensive rankings is flawed. You use total yards. That is 1 factor is determing offense and defense efficiency.

Do they rate QBs by total yards? No. Why not? Because there so many more determining factors (TDs, INTs, YPC, etc).

The reason that you only use yards is because you are desparately clinging to the fact that the Cowboys were ranked #1 in that statistical defensive category. And since you saw that they were ranked #1 in this one category, you deduced that they were the #1 defense last year. Way to be a homer.
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Postby bagobonez » Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:53 pm

Yeah, that didn't really explain anything, but nice try.
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Postby maddog60 » Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:39 pm

bagobonez wrote:You're right points are what matter, not yards. I wonder how the Eagles score so many points without having to move the ball? I have your answer. Penalties. Same with their defense. Their defense yardage wise was ranked 20th, but they allowed alot fewer points. This just supports my conspiracy theory beliefs. The refs do not penalize Philly, thus making the yardage they DO get count even more, and then penalize the shit out of the Eagles' opponents, so the Eagles move the ball easily without getting the actual yardage accredited to them. THen on defense, the defense is bending and bending and bending until the opponent is threatening to score, and then the refs step in and make sure the opponent only gets a field goal, or kicks them out of FG range altogether.


Well, I see you completely ignored the fact that the Eagles moved the ball further on each play than Dallas. To expand upon that, Dallas only beat their total yardage on account of having more offensive plays.

As for your conspiracy theory... after I stopped laughing I checked facts. You know its something that lends a little credit to an argument. And what do you know. Last year in terms of most penalties here's how the NFC shakes out:

Philly Dallas Wash. NY
Def: 4 29 25 7
Off: 9 12 27 30

(Ranking them so that the team with the most penalties against them has a higher rank).

So, in 2003 the Offense and their Defense were called for more penalties than any NFC Offense or Defense. Have as many hunches as you want, the facts are facts, this completely contradicts your theory which has no hard evidence to support it.
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Postby cooleyhigh » Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:48 pm

I don't care to read all of this or comment on the Eagle bias. I do think the NFL did the Ravens wrong.

Based on preseason the Dallas passing game looks good. Washington looks awful. I doubt anyone would argue for the Giants. Philly should have the best offense unless Westbrook goes down which is likely to happen.

I do get tired of everyone saying the Dallas offense will suck.

Mort, don't delude the Cowboy fans!! They will have a great D but you know that Vinnie is gonna have his issues in the regular season with his age (1TD from starters this preseason). They will be back, but the Tuna gets too much credit. Like they said on NFL Live, anyone else picks up these guys (Vinnie, Key, and Eddie) and we laugh. The Boys have too many issues on Offense to threaten the Eagles THIS year!

Chris Mortensen: You'll be surprised - and disappointed if you believe everything you just said. I'm actuallly wondering about the Cowboys' defense more than their offense. The Dallas offense will be better - maybe much better than last year.


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