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Postby Steve_Mac9 » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:08 am

This might not be the right forum for this but these call do have a bearing on fantasy numbers. Has anyone else noticed how the NFL is catering to passive play with their rule enforcements. I'm going to use a few plays in The Titans game as an example but it's happening in all games: Albert Haynesworth gets a push up the middle lunges towards Peyton, grazes his facemask/helmet with his forearm and gets a 15 yard penalty to help keep a drive going. Andre Dyson sticks his arm out BARELY touches the leg of R Wayne and gets a penalty and an automatic 1st to keep a drive going. Lynch hit on Hall was legal I thought. I mean I love the NFL because it is an aggressive, violent sport and I know the league has to protect it's players but I think lately it is a bit excessive. Opinions?
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Postby chronatog7 » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:16 am

Anytime you touch the head of a QB, it will be a penalty. That's they way it always been. The league is protecting their #1 asset, QBs.

Secondly, The Lynch-Hall play can be interpreted as Hall been defenseless. Others might see it as a price to pay when you go thru the middle.

Finally, Dyson-Wayne play was BS. I have to agree with you. That was unintentional contact and did not hinder the WR from running nor gave Dyson an advantage.

That's all I have to say about that!
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Postby awwchrist » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:22 am

Same thing happened in the Seattle/TB game...last drive of the game and Chike Okeafor fough his way through on a stunt and as he was falling to the feet (and away) of Simms his hand GRAZED Simms' facemask.

on a 3rd and long that's a hard penalty to swallow. Extended the drive. and turned it into a nail-biter.

Competition committee needs to review the way that rule works.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:31 am

You can't have situational penalty calling. A facemack or shot to the head is the same whether it is 4th and long in the 4th quarter or 1st and ten in the first quarter.

If you start calling the penalties different depending on the situation then you put too much power in the hands of the officials.

I agree with the rules that protect the QBs and the defenseless WR. These guys are the face of the NFL, the starpower and they should be protected when they are defenseless. The defenders can lay all of the licks they want on someone that has the ball, but when they don't have the ball they should not be allowed to lay the player out.
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Postby awwchrist » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:33 am

Dude they already DO have situational penalty calling ...

Facemask...5 or 15 yard penalities. Both are determined by the judgement of the referee. Tell me that's not situational.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:39 am

I understand the rules and the nedd for them to be enforced - but there was a ton of tick-tac penalties being called that I thought were pretty bad calls this past week. That Simms call - from the replay I saw - was pretty weak.

I dont have a suggestion on how to solve the problem, but I do think there is a disconnect between the intent of the rule and its enforcement. As a fan Im pretty disapointed when I see ticktack fouls being called in such a brutal sport. There were a few very questionable roughing the passer calls this weekend.
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Postby Steve_Mac9 » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:40 am

Mookie4ever wrote:You can't have situational penalty calling. A facemack or shot to the head is the same whether it is 4th and long in the 4th quarter or 1st and ten in the first quarter.

If you start calling the penalties different depending on the situation then you put too much power in the hands of the officials.

I agree with the rules that protect the QBs and the defenseless WR. These guys are the face of the NFL, the starpower and they should be protected when they are defenseless. The defenders can lay all of the licks they want on someone that has the ball, but when they don't have the ball they should not be allowed to lay the player out.


Ok but what is defenseless? They get carried away with that. As far as QB contact that has gotten crazy, they are on the field so they can get nailed like anyone else. What about a TE that puts his head down and plows for extra yards in the open field and gets nothing but a safety gets 15 for leading with his helmet. Let's play football, nothing dirty, but real football where violent contact is a part of the game.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:46 am

awwchrist wrote:Dude they already DO have situational penalty calling ...

Facemask...5 or 15 yard penalities. Both are determined by the judgement of the referee. Tell me that's not situational.


I'm not saying that refs shouldn't or don't have discretion - of course they have discretion, tons of it. But what it seemed like you were saying is that they should call the penalties different depending on the situation. The 5 or 15 for a facemask is supposed to be determined by how severe the facemask was and not by anything else.
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Postby awwchrist » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:06 am

I agree with you completely.

And there was no severity what so ever to the "illegal use of hands...hands to the head of the QB" ...so why give the offensive team 15 yards and a first down?

Those types of penalties are supposed to deter defensive players from taking cheap shots..but there has to be a way to protect an entire team from losing a ball game over the scenario I'm arguing.

You can't have a professional football game won or lost because of crap like this.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:33 am

awwchrist wrote:I agree with you completely.

And there was no severity what so ever to the "illegal use of hands...hands to the head of the QB" ...so why give the offensive team 15 yards and a first down?

Those types of penalties are supposed to deter defensive players from taking cheap shots..but there has to be a way to protect an entire team from losing a ball game over the scenario I'm arguing.

You can't have a professional football game won or lost because of crap like this.


I agree that it sucks when these penalties affect the outcome of a game. It sucks more when a game is decided because the most important player on a team is out because of a cheap shot.

What does stink, and I agree with you, is that these penalties are not always called consistently. AJ Feely took a wicked shot to the head yesterday a full 3 count after he got rid of the ball and there was no call (maybe the ref did not consider him a QB :-b ). But, the NFL refs are way better than umps in baseball and refs in hockey. They get it right most of the time and these bad calls stand out so much because they usually get it right.
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