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rant against Joe Gibbs and halfback passes

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rant against Joe Gibbs and halfback passes

Postby Cooner » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:30 am

Ahhh the joys and hates of fantasy football. Allow me to tell you a quick story: going into last night's game, I needed 4.95 points to tie my opponent. Remaining on my side is Clinton Portis, Dallas D, and Matt Bowen. Remaining on my opponent's side is Glenn. 5 points? Sure, seems reasonable I say.

For those who aren't so fast with adding up points, the short summary:

Matt Bowen is injured in the first half, leaving with a single tackle and netting me 1/2 a point.

Portis gets yards but no TDs, running for 94 yards, receiving 37 more, netting me almost 7 points.

Dallas D allows 18 points (none to Portis mind you), but gets 5 sacks, netting me 6 points.

Total is 13.5 points.

Unfortunately, Terry Glenn catches a halfback pass for a TD (yes, a HALFBACK PASS!?!?!? 8-o ) chucked up by Richie Anderson and gets 60 yards for the 9 points needed to beat me by a 1/2 point.

Annoying, but I could deal with this, if it were simply a case of bad luck. But it wasn't a fluke play that lost me the week... it was Joe Gibbs. Here comes the rant:

Joe Joe Joe, say it ain't so! Halfway through the game, it's 1st and goal at the 1. You have someone on your team named Clinton Portis, who is averaging over 4 yards a carry. You have an offensive line that couldn't get a 1-yard push on my former high school football team. Do you give the ball to Portis and allow your best player to make something happen, or do you let Brunell try to dive forward and get the TD? If you are Joe Gibbs, you go with Brunell. 2nd and 1.5. Now you give it to Portis, he picks up a yard, but not quite enough. 3rd and .5. Brunell rolls out and tosses an incomplete pass. WHY JOE WHY!?!

I could forgive not going with your best player once, but Gibbs repeated this later on (fortunately for Gibbs, it worked this time and Gardner got a TD).

Even this I could forgive, but the complete and utter lack of any clock management is what really makes me cry. In the third quarter, the Skins are forced to call 2 timeouts on successive plays when they simply don't get the play in fast enough. This bites the Skins in the rear end when they don't have a timeout to call on the last play of the game, which would have set up a short field goal and OT, allowing Portis to pick up those 10 more yards I needed for that extra point, or another Dallas sack, etc etc etc.

I'm actually starting to regret having Portis as my feature back, since it seems that Gibbs is committed to the run only when he's not within 5 yards of the end zone, and with my scoring being slightly weighted towards TDs, Portis has done very little for my team. I'm now 0-3 with an incredibly talented lineup, even for a 8 team league for the simple fact that my RBs and QB can't score:

Hasselbeck
Portis, Barlow (or Henry)
Ward, Harrison, Stallworth (or Porter)
Crumpler
Longwell
Dallas (or whoever i grab off waivers)
Arrington (late sub in Bowen with Lavar out a bit)
Simeon Rice (probably will get replaced soon)

Ahh the pain.

Thanks for listening.
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Postby Plindsey88 » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:38 am

OK, a few things, here...

First of all, on 3rd down at the goal line he HAD to throw b/c if he didn't get in he had to have time to setup for the field goal... Now, Gibbs had tried earlier in that set of downs to call a time out, but Gregg Williams stopped him b/c he didn't want Dallas to have another shot at things after they scored... It was stupid of Joe to listen to him, but the piss poor clock management in that instance lies with Williams...

Secondly, Portis running behind that line is good for a 4-8 yard scoot when he can get into a hole and make some cuts, but there is no way he is going to muscle his way over the goal line against a team like Dallas... NO WAY... They gave him his shot, and he came up short... You have to go pass after that, even if you do have the timeout to setup a field goal... Portis just isn't getting it done at the goal line this year... IMO, they should let Cooley handle the goal line duties, whether it be at Tight End or as an H-back...
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Postby Cooner » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:50 am

Plindsey88 wrote:OK, a few things, here...

First of all, on 3rd down at the goal line he HAD to throw b/c if he didn't get in he had to have time to setup for the field goal...


on this i agree, he did have to throw in that situation. But on 1st down, he could have backed up a few steps, given it to Portis, and let Portis find a hole or bounce it outside. I agree Dallas is solid, but Portis was making space for himself all day long. If that doesn't work, then try the bootleg, or let Portis try again. On third go for the pass. The real complaint here is the choice of the QB dive on 1st- that only works if your O-line can get a yard of push against the Dallas D-line, and frankly, that was NEVER going to happen.

I agree with your other statement though, it wasn't just Gibbs' fault for poor clock management on that timeout, but when your team is starting to huddle up with under 15 seconds on the play clock, you know you're in trouble- it happened twice in a row and resulted in 2 timeouts in the 3rd.
Last edited by Cooner on Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:50 am

There is no doubt that Washington is a poorly run club right now. I guess it's a lot harder than it looks to jump back into the NFL after all those years. Why are the people around Gibbs not giving him better advice?
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Postby Plindsey88 » Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:00 am

Amazinz wrote:There is no doubt that Washington is a poorly run club right now. I guess it's a lot harder than it looks to jump back into the NFL after all those years. Why are the people around Gibbs not giving him better advice?


I don't think it is necessarily that it is a poorly run club, per se... I think it is more the fact that you have a new coach, with a new system, working with new coordinators, a new QB, a new RB, a rookie TE, a new #3 WR, etc... etc... They are still ironing out the wrinkles... I CAN say this, though, the Skins are looking MUCH better than they have in almost all the years since he left... The loss to the Giants hinged on turnovers, and I don't think the Skins had a single one last night, which says a lot about the coaching during the interim week... The loss to the Cowboys hinged on 2 horrible calls by the refs... The interference in the endzone called against us was totally offensive and led directly to an easy TD... And the non interference call on Dallas in the endzone was obvious interference...

Once the Skins all get on the same page, I can see them being very dangerous this year... The defense shutdown Testaverde's high powered offense, and totally stuffed the run last night, and the offense was really firing there at the end of the game... Give us one more possession, or reverse one of those horrible calls (or lack of calls) and we win that game last night... Spurrier's pitiful ass never got close to anything like what Gibbs has going on in Washington right now...
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Postby Free Bagel » Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:06 am

You can't really fault Williams for the clock management. If Gibbs hadn't listened to him, there would've been more time, if he had listened to him, he would've had a timeout to use and hence could've still run the ball on 3rd down. The problem was that Gibbs was indecisive, and let about 20 seconds run off, THEN called the timeout. Then after 2nd down, he did the exact same thing. I believe after the first timeout there were 46 seconds left. Then they ran an HB dive, which takes maybe 4 seconds, leaving the clock at 42. The finally called their last timeout with 16 seconds left.

Then the really retarded part was trying a playaction bootleg on 3rd down. Like was said, they had to pass on 3rd down. If we knew that, don't you think Dallas did? It was funny watching them run playaction and seeing no Dallas players even flinch.

The other thing is wouldn't you think that with 2 minutes to gameplan after the first timeout and planning on running an hb dive on 2nd and goal, you would have another play ready to go so you wouldn't have to burn that final timeout? With an HB dive you pretty much know you'll either score or be stuffed at the 1, so you know the scenario if 3rd down comes up. Passing the ball from the 1 when the defense knows you have to pass is very very difficult. Losing so much time that they couldn't run is what kept them out of the end zone on third down.
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Postby HappyTimeH » Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:07 am

The clock management and play calling by the redskins was horrible, those 2 time outs were inexcusable and playing call wasnt much better, why didnt they run Portis more??? All in all, not a good showing for Gibbs.
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Postby Amazinz » Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:13 am

The team looks great and the are playing good football. So from that perspective I think he's doing a great job. But the actual management of the team (not just clock management, Brunell nothing having command of the team when he lines up) hasn't been very good and cost them a ballgame. I'm not hating. I always root for the Skins when they're not playing the G-Men and just sucks they lose a game to the Cowgirls that they should have won.
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Postby Steve_Mac9 » Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:35 am

Plindsey88 wrote:OK, a few things, here...

First of all, on 3rd down at the goal line he HAD to throw b/c if he didn't get in he had to have time to setup for the field goal... Now, Gibbs had tried earlier in that set of downs to call a time out, but Gregg Williams stopped him b/c he didn't want Dallas to have another shot at things after they scored... It was stupid of Joe to listen to him, but the piss poor clock management in that instance lies with Williams...

Secondly, Portis running behind that line is good for a 4-8 yard scoot when he can get into a hole and make some cuts, but there is no way he is going to muscle his way over the goal line against a team like Dallas... NO WAY... They gave him his shot, and he came up short... You have to go pass after that, even if you do have the timeout to setup a field goal... Portis just isn't getting it done at the goal line this year... IMO, they should let Cooley handle the goal line duties, whether it be at Tight End or as an H-back...


Here we go piling on the Tenn guy again. After the first down play there were 55 seconds left with 2 timeouts what Williams tried to tell the feeble old man is that there was no need to use the TO and give Dallas up to 50 seconds to score if the Skins would have scored their ownselves on the next play - he was telling them take your time, huddle up, run the play, then if you don't score again use a TO before the 3rd down play (which would leave you 1) then if you didn't score on 3rd let the clock run down to 3 seconds call the TO, kick your FG - half over. Instead the confused Old Guy Gibbs waits after 1st down about 20 seconds, calls a TO, runs a play gets stuffed, has to use his other TO after 2nd down which left him with none and 13 seconds on the clock - therefore the Cowboys knew he was going to have to pass. Bad Bad Coaching - Williams was trying to help the Old Guy.

I grew up in the MD area watching Gibbs and admired him, but people this is a tired 64 year old diabetic who is a wreck right now mentally - listen to him, no pun attended he's tired and if I were close to him would really be concerned how much longer he can take it. The only reason he got back into is because his son couldn't get a job so Joe was helping him get his foot in the door. Honestly the dude better step down or he might kick the bucket soon ... Sounds harsh but it's the truth.
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