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Do you like limits on waiver moves or no limits?

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Do you like limits on waiver moves or no limits?

Postby Azrael » Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:42 pm

If there are no transaction fees (because this will somewhat limit moves in itself) then I think there should be a limit on waiver moves. In both of my money leagues there are limits.

The one has a limit of 2 non-inury moves. To use an injury move, the player must be declared OUT by NFL.com on the injury report prior to that week. While I personally think 2 non-injury moves is harsh I think there should be a limit. My other money league has 15 total moves as a limit. I think this is a reasonable amount to allow for injuries and make certain other acquisitions during the season.

Why you ask? Here is my reasoning.

It protects the concept of drafting a TEAM, emphasizes doing your own homework and developing a draft strategy, and challenges your managerial skills. I also think it encourages trading too. If you can't hit up the WW 2 or 3 times every week then you have to start bargaining with other owners. By having a limit to acquisitions, this forces people to work with the team they drafted, instead of picking up the flavor of the week RB and WR, attempting to strike lightning in a bottle to atone for their suckass and poorly scouted draft, and trying to play "matchup" with kickers and defenses every week.

If it is just going to be a free for all every week for each every potential starter for that week why not start the year out like that. Have everyone get online and just start grabbing whoever they can.

The idea of fantasy football, I think, is to draft the best team you can according to where your selection position was and your research skills and manage that TEAM throughout the year.

If you are the dummy that drafted Stephen Davis in the 2nd round or whatever then try to deal with that with what you have or try to make a move to find someone to fill in for him. Perhaps you should have drafted Foster (maybe you did). I hate watching guys pick up running backs or whatever every week to try to fill in a blown early pick or find the next Rudi or DD.

Everyone has these guys in there league who you can't recognize 3 people from the team they drafted to half way through the year.

Maybe it's just me but I think alot of people don't get better at FF and don't learn from their mistakes because they use the WW as a crutch to get by week to week. I also think it's more challenging and draws out the better owners.
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Postby Mercer Boy » Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:24 pm

When I first saw my league had a 25 move limit, I thought I would hate it. Now, I think it's too dang many! I've used 7 moves so far, and I still haven't changed my core team members because of my good drafting. The only people I've picked up are new starting RB's that I need for depth (because I had none). At the same time, idiots who drafted stupidly are picking up all the "diamonds in the rough" that I don't need and making their teams better. This frustrates me a little bit.

I really am starting to like the idea of move limits. You need to have enough so you can still compete if you have an injury, but you don't want someone who drafted terribly to circumvent the work you did leading up to the draft. A limit of 15 moves per year (one a week) would probably be plenty in most leagues.
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Postby Azrael » Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:22 pm

You nailed my argument in a nutshell but I am surprised there have been 50 looks at this topic and not any posts. I've had this argument in the midst of other topics. I'd like to see if anyone who likes the unlimited transactions or lots of them can present a good argument for this.
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Postby THE RAGE » Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:43 pm

In our league you get one WW pick a week. First come first serve. You are right, you build your team through the draft. The WW should not be used to rebuild a badly drafted team. It should be used for injuries, byes, or finding that diamond in the rough to solidify a team.
That reminds me.....I gotta pick up a K soon!
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Postby r8erfanj » Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:54 pm

Very intriguing scenario you present. I enjoyed reading your opinion. I have been playing in the same league for 9 years now. We have a few new faces sice I joined, but the league usually stays the same. One comment I will make is that the ssmae cast of characters always finish near the top of the standings every year. We allow unlimited free agent aquisitions to be made, and it doesn't matter. Actually, I think our leages walking door mat picks up more free agents than anyone else. But I do agree that there should be a cap on the total numer of free agents that one may pick up. In the 8 years prior to this year, I have won this league twice. 1996, my first year, and 2000. In 1996, I may have picked up 2 players all ear. I know one was A. Freeman. I drafted a solid team (Favre, B. Sanders, T. Davis, T. Brown, I. Fryar, M. Jackson he-he, etc.) When I won, it really felt good. But in 2000, I bought a Championship. I bought A. Brooks, J. Horn, and others who I dont even rememer which goes to show that this type of winnig is sorry! Yeah, I won, but I dont even remember my team. I felt like Jerry Jones! Oh well. I drafted well this year, and oh by the way, it is an olympic year. I ahve won the last two olympic years, and i am 3-1 so fat, in first place. Good topic my friend!!!
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Postby yodawgyo » Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:03 pm

In a leauge with IDP and rb,wr, wr/te, te, wr/rb, wr/rb, wr/rb slots I like having no limits on waiver moves. Everyone is active trying to get the better defensive players, running backs that are starting for a week because of an injury, and filling in slots because of injury. There's 12 teams in the leauge and every team but 4 has 15 plus moves. Most people like playing RBs in their flex slots so usually once people hear of an injury to a RB, the backup is quickly taken. I like this because the whole leauge is active and the waiver priority is much more important. Plus the leauge was an autodraft, which having no limits on waiver moves help.
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Postby moochman » Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:03 pm

For me one of the best days in FF is draft day. All of your preseason scouting is put to practice as you build the team that will be the envy of your league, and quite possibly the model that all FF owners will use as the future of FF is changed by your brilliance. Then the season, often refered to as bitter reality, sets in and you realize that once again you've bought into the hype and have built another also-ran. Fortunately, the season doesn't end on draft day. And neither should an owner's resposibility.
Trades are hard to structure and require giving up the few players that have value on your team. Mostly you end up weakening one area to fortify another, and that is only if you can convince someone else to trade with you.
That is why I like an unlimited WW system. It gives the astute owner a chance to weed through the ruffage on the wire to find this year's DD. If you happened to draft well or not be a, what was the word, Azrael? Dummy, that's it. The dummy who drafted S Davis. I guess since I drafted Charles Rogers and Steve Smith then I must be a dummy(although I will insist that my lower than average level of intelligence is merely coincidental). Since I can't redraft to make up for my lack of insight in drafting these obviously frail players (well Rogers I should have seen coming) the WW is a source of hope for me as I try to patch up my holes with the Stokleys and Caldwells of the world.
And if these undrafted players don't work out, I should have to keep them as opposed to cycling them back through the wire and grabbing this weeks flavor? Don't you think that even a dummy like me might be able to field a more competitive team if I can try to pan through the wire for a fleck of gold? No, i guess I'll disagree with you guys as I think that an unlimited WW can only help a league.
Why is it that you dislike it so? Oh yeah, because the idiots who didn't draft well are going to find all the diamonds in the rough and make their teams better. Well, there two things I feel are wrong with that statement:
1-Why would the 'idiots' who drafted so poorly be able to suddenly turn into geniuses and find these diamonds? Wouldn't it stand to reason that the 'idiots' would grab the Olandis Garys off the wire while you more brilliant owners would choose DD? And if they are the ones choosing DD, then who is the 'idiot'?
2-Why does a team that had a poor draft or injury issues be denied a tool to try and make itself a better, more competitive team? Wouldn't you agree that the more competitive a league is, the funner and more satisfying it is to win(I'm merely supposing here)? And wouldn't that league also tend not to end up with ghost teams?
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Postby vitalogist » Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:15 pm

one move a week is good. we have a $2 a move fee, which is enough to make you think about it, and adds to the pot at the end of the year. so if you draft well, and win, then you profit off the dog that paid an extra 50 bucks to pick up mewelde moore, or someone like him, 3 times a week. personally, i have a hard time not picking up one player a week. there is some strategy in picking up players to block other teams, as well, which i have no problem with. we also reset our waiver priority each week in inverse order of standings, so the last place team always gets first shot at whoever they want, as it takes 2 days to process (giving each owner a chance, based on priority). i personally will never play in an unlimited transaction league again.
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Postby THE RAGE » Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:25 pm

The DRAFT is the most important event in FF. In ANY LEAGUE. If you suck up the joint on draft day then yes, you will struggle.
I like limiting WW pickups. It is good for a competetive league. And the smart owners usually don't need to use the WW often to fill the weak spots. If you are patching holes every week it will catch up to you eventually.
Next year, I'm thinking of a "no trade" league to put a stop to the lob-sided trade issue. Most trades in every league I've been in have been questionable and usually leave a bad taste in the mouths of other owners.
That Cincy K doesn't seem too bad....
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Postby smackthefirst » Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:33 pm

I could probably argue both sides of this one, but I prefer unlimited transactions. In my main league we start 2 kickers and a D every week. I play amtchups with those 3 slots week in and week out. That alone is 2-3 moves per week, and would put me around 35 just for that spot.

As for people getting lucky on the wire and your draft not being as important, I can agree to a point. Yes it puts less emphasis on your draft, but it forces you to watch everything as the year progresses. Even if I have a great draft, I know finding that one break out player could put me over the top, or conversely, bring that low level team to the top. But thats what research during the season is all about.

I just think that a better prepared player will win out over the lucky people on the WW over the long run. And those who can both draft well and work the WW nicely will almost always finish near the top.

But, all in all, I think this is what makes fantasy sports so great. There are so many ways to set up leagues, score, etc. that everyone will find something appeasing.

To each their own, as long as the game goes on.

Good topic. You might want to see about having this put up as a debate. ;-D
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