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Do you like limits on waiver moves or no limits?

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Postby Mercer Boy » Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:01 am

moochman wrote:1-Why would the 'idiots' who drafted so poorly be able to suddenly turn into geniuses and find these diamonds? Wouldn't it stand to reason that the 'idiots' would grab the Olandis Garys off the wire while you more brilliant owners would choose DD? And if they are the ones choosing DD, then who is the 'idiot'?

Because all they have to do is sort the players by fantasy points scored and pick up the people that have scored well in the past few weeks... :-) That's what a buddy of mine is doing who drafted Manning first overall and Tony G with his second pick (autodrafted)...I'm not going to give up one of the players I drafted that I feel will outscore the players that went undrafted, so I have to leave them for others to take. If they end up scoring more than the guys I drafted, then I guess at the end I'm the idiot. :,-(

moochman wrote:2-Why does a team that had a poor draft or injury issues be denied a tool to try and make itself a better, more competitive team? Wouldn't you agree that the more competitive a league is, the (more fun) and more satisfying it is to win(I'm merely supposing here)? And wouldn't that league also tend not to end up with ghost teams?
just my dos pesos

I don't mind them getting better players, and I would do the same thing if I had a hole in my team! But, with a limit it would deter people from switching to the flavors of the week every week without thinking about using all their moves before the end of the year.
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Postby IRON CHEF » Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:11 am

I can't say I have experience, since I've never played with a transaction limit, but from what I have gathered I don't really like it.

You could do all the homework you want, and study up on FF for months, but having a good draft is no guarantee. You could have easily taken something like Deuce, CJ, Bennett, and Smith the first 4 rds and be at the bottom of your standings.

As much as I like to think fantasy involves skill, I'd still say it contains quite a bit of luck. I know my 1-3 team could wipe the floor with any of my other more sucessful teams. What I am getting at is the waiver wire allows for the guys who research the right players to come through. Picking up the flavor of the week doesn't lead to victory, but finding out what players are worth a roster spot is what leads to championships.
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Postby Free Bagel » Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:48 am

Ya know, I've never played in a league with transaction limits, and upon reading the title of this thread I figured the answer would simply be that I wouldn't like the restriction. However, the more I read (and think) about it, the more I like the way the idea sounds.

I *thought* I had an advantage in the draft because I actually drafted some depth, especially at RB since we start 2 RB's and a flex, while other teams only drafted 2 starting RB's and now are at the top of the league simply because they've been able to plug in, as you put it, "the flavor of the week" at the flex spot each league.

Onterrio Smith, Amos Zeroueue, Johnathan Wells, etc.

For instance, the guy I'm playing has Priest and Cmart as his RB's...that's it. He pretty much didn't even draft any other RB's in the draft, so I thought he'd be in trouble, especially this week since Priest is on a bye and I play him. However, he's now been able to pick up Amos and Bettis off the WW, which may very well be suitable fill-ins.

As far as the person who mentioned someone earning a good player by being able to "recognize" Boldin or DD as an actual good player and not just a one week wonder, well I think quite the opposite is true without the transaction limit. Without the limit, you can just pick up every player that throws up big numbers each week. If you had a limit, you'd actually have to try and decide whether or not you felt that player was the real deal before spending one of your moves on them.

I think I'm gonna push for a 15-20 move limit next year in my leagues (on FA/WW, not on trades).
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Release the hounds!

Postby Confucian Scholars » Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:48 am

I LOVE UNLIMITED MOVES!!! I am constantly switching kickers and defenses according to match-ups and you better believe I'm not going to let Mewelde Moore just sit there for my opponent to pick up.
One of the great traditions of fantasy football is halftime acquisitions. There is nothing like running to the fridge Sunday afternoon to get a cold one and then stopping by your PC to get Anquan Boldin.
What? You think Zereoue will still be available after his second touchdown? Not in my league! I'll have my fast flying fingers ready Monday night when Brett Favre goes down and Craig Nall becomes the starter in Detroit during Peyton Manning's bye week.
You want to question my drafting skills? I took Fred Taylor and Rudi Johnson for running backs; not exactly the studs I thought they would be but that's what was left at my low draft position. Since then I have had my share of Lamar Gordon, Aaron Stecker, Jonathan Wells and now Mewelde Moore and Amos Zereoue. (I have Michael Pittman on the bench.)
I'm in another league that has 6 IDPs and switch those players according to match-ups too. I drafted Jamie and Darren Sharper but just dropped Darren to pick up Troy Polamalu when I saw his consecutive match-ups consisting of Boller, Feeley, Carson Palmer, Jeff Garcia, and Vinny Testaverde.
I delight in being the guy in my league that everybody loves to hate. I'm sure they are all in favor of restricting moves and locking the league on Sunday but you know what, ... }:-) *extended razzberry*
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Re: Release the hounds!

Postby Mercer Boy » Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:11 am

Confucian Scholars wrote:I delight in being the guy in my league that everybody loves to hate. I'm sure they are all in favor of restricting moves and locking the league on Sunday but you know what, ... }:-) *extended razzberry*
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I was that guy last year...which is why my league is doing limits this year. I made over 40 roster moves last year because I kept picking up players that had good games but often never panned out. I was told pointblank that I was the reason the limits were put in place. They know I do fantasy stuff about 10 hours a day and that they would have no chance to get players without a limit. But, 25 is still too many if they really wanted to stop me from playing matchups involving defenses and injuries to RB's. This year I drafted much more soundly than last, so I don't feel the need to pick off wire players.

Of course, the limits apply to everyone else's ability to switch, so we'll see what happens to those teams at the end of the year...
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Postby DanDigital » Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:53 am

In one of my leagues, which I am commissioner of, you get one "free" pickup per week going in reverse order of who scored the fewest points that week, and three more pickups for that week. You can only make four moves a week. A dropped player is "dead" for 24 hours. The move limit prevents people from cycling through players to prevent others from picking them up.
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Postby nugsfan » Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:43 am

:-[ I really think it is how your league is structures weather or not it makes any sense. We all use Fanball's commissioner league which allows for some flexibility, but the things that really make a difference are league size, roster limitations and number of starters each week. We start two TE's, 2RB's and 2 WR's every week and allow 4 reserves and 1 Injured reserve to be held on each team. Just how many good pick-ups do you think that leaves? Most of the pick-ups are to cover bye weeks or injuries wich means dropping a potentially better player and risking them to the first come first served waiver wire. This makes teams think long and hard before exposing a player to the wire because of a bye week or because of a 2-3 week injury and teams that take the immediate hit by grabbing them have the option to stash them for depth later but at the risk of dumping a current starter. I have been in leagues that charge for transactions but as long as the NFL has the bye week and we have over a 10 team league I will always be in favor of unlimited free WW and trade moves for those two reasons.
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Postby moochman » Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:21 am

Mercer Boy wrote:[Because all they have to do is sort the players by fantasy points scored and pick up the people that have scored well in the past few weeks... :-) That's what a buddy of mine is doing who drafted Manning first overall and Tony G with his second pick (autodrafted)...I'm not going to give up one of the players I drafted that I feel will outscore the players that went undrafted, so I have to leave them for others to take. If they end up scoring more than the guys I drafted, then I guess at the end I'm the idiot. :,-(

I don't mind them getting better players, and I would do the same thing if I had a hole in my team! But, with a limit it would deter people from switching to the flavors of the week every week without thinking about using all their moves before the end of the year.


What that is called is chasing box scores. It's a loser strategy because most players on the wire are there because of their inconsistancy. Remember there is already a penalty in place to inhibit owners from making many transactions: they have to cut players they though were better from their roster. This isn't tue with cycling, but leagues have ways to get by a-hole cyclers.
What I keep reading is that those who want limits seem to feel that the wire diminishes the impact of the draft and that players that drafted poorly will suddenly become great talent evaluaters and start drubbing good drafters with their slew of WW starters. At best an unlikely scenario. The draft will always be the most important tool in building a team. Frequent use of WW will not take away from a good draft simply because the better your draft the more likely that the players on the WW wouldn't make your roster anyway. I do believe that unlimited use of the WW may help some sad sack owners keep involved in the league, and that alone should make it worthwhile. Ghosts suck.
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Postby nugsfan » Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:28 am

8-o Only thing worse than ghost teams is losing to ghost teams!!! The fact that the WW holds out hope that a team can get better keeps those disaster teams involved longer and that alone has value. It also keeps the league tuned in more closely on what players are doing as a whole, and how other teams moves can benefit them. Basically it seems that teams in smaller leagues are afraid that these guys will get wise to the better players out there and make moves to improve their chances, otherwise this isnt really a point worthy of being argued because there arent any superstars in the WW in larger leagues, only marginal fill ins and speculative moves in the hope of gaining a slight edge.
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Postby Free Bagel » Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:08 am

nugsfan wrote:otherwise this isnt really a point worthy of being argued because there arent any superstars in the WW in larger leagues, only marginal fill ins and speculative moves in the hope of gaining a slight edge.


So someone in your league had DD and Boldin on your roster before they broke out last year? Unlikely.

Here's the problem. The guys that draft well draft well all the way through. The people that draft poorly have wasted guys on their team that they can afford to cycle out week by week looking for the next big thing. Now, did the guy that got DD last year evaluate his talent and think he was the real deal? Well, considering that guy just picked up the top performer on the WW each week and held him just long enough to see if he was for real or not, I don't think so.

The bad teams have the room to sit and cycle through every player that has a good week, and in the end getting DD and Boldin for free off the WW is just as good as drafting well (hell it's a free 1st and 3rd round pick essentially), since the players that draft well don't have the room to add every single player that has a good week to their roster. With move limits, you'd actually have to EVALUATE said player and DETERMINE if they're the real deal or not, rather than just being able to add every one of them from week to week and eventually getting lucky.
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