Several al Qaeda suspects "disappear"

[Flockers]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6228150/

Personally, I don't care what they do to these guys to get info out of them.

[Football Newbie]

they are horrible people no doubt, but people keep talking about setting an example and such, do you think torturing people will set a good example do you think torturing people will help cool down the middle east? honestly. Get a grip. Grr. I feel a political discussion about to commence so im going to put in my 2 cents and leave quietly.

[Cornbread Maxwell]

Most of you guys who have seen me in the Politics forum on the Darkside know the way I lean, but I completely disagree with how captured enemies are treated.

Back in WW2, historians will tell you that many Germans were captured and sent back to the States. When the war was over the many of them decided to stay because they were treated humanely and with dignity - not to mention the idea of freedom was too great to pass up.

Contrast that with how we are treating terrorist prisoners today.

I know its not a great analogy, and the terrorists are severely brainwashed from years of institutional teachings of hate, but I do think that the way to break the cycle of hatred is with love and respect.

This theory of making your captured enemies respect you and your cause by treating them humanely dates back hundreds of yrs. Sun Tzu wrote about it centuries ago. The Stockholm Syndrome has been studied and widely accepted for yrs now. So why isnt our military practicing this theory today?

Maybe some of you familiar with the Armed forces and its practices can enlighten us on this topic - I would appreciate it.

For those who havent read what I write on the other side I am very fiscally conservative and usually labeled pretty far to the right, so this opinion may come as a suprise to those who have read my political writings. Its one of the few things regarding this administration that I have serious reservations with.

As far as the story goes - who knows what happened to them? The way covert ops and secret dealings go - we as people reading a news story probably have a very very small fraction of the truth regarding it.

[Flockers]

Hmmm... I can feel a political debate forthcoming. Maybe a mod should lock this thread.

[goleafsgo96]

Hmmm... I can feel a political debate forthcoming. Maybe a mod should lock this thread.

whats wrong with a debate? so what if people get heated, until it results in insults, it should be open for discussion.

[ForeverBlue]

11 Al-Qaida suspects "disappeared"? Should I cry? I wish more would vanish.
There were 12 people I personally knew that "disappeared" in the Twin Towers on 9/11.


Maybe the Human Rights Watch should put some pressure on those maniacs that are beheading hostages inside Iraq.
The United States has always been an advocate for human rights. The Human Rights Watch should visit the Sudan, or China or someplace else.

[Count_Rugen]

11 Al-Qaida suspects "disappeared"? Should I cry? I wish more would vanish.
There were 12 people I personally knew that "disappeared" in the Twin Towers on 9/11.


Maybe the Human Rights Watch should put some pressure on those maniacs that are beheading hostages inside Iraq.
The United States has always been an advocate for human rights. The Human Rights Watch should visit the Sudan, or China or someplace else.

I had to chime in here. They do visit those places. The conditions there are abysmal. What's your point?

That somehow gives us, arguably the wealthiest, one of the largest, and definitely the most powerful and influential nation of all time the right to drop to their level? We're supposed to be above that. *WE* set the example. It's easy to hate a nation that tortures prisoners, it's hard to hate one that treats them humanely. The world is one big average equation, and we are--- correction, WERE--- at one time one of the highest numbers on that equation in terms of human rights and humane treatment of prisoners. We still are relatively high, but if we slide, we pull the whole average down, get it?

This is not the time of barbarism. This is the time of enlightened understanding. There will always --- always --- be people blowing up buildings. No doubt in my mind. Deal with it. I most certainly, intensely disagree (and thank god the Supreme Court is backing this opinion up) with the Bush Administrations absurd notion that they can somehow lock up a US citizen with no access to anyone, including an attorney, and hold them indefinitely w/o filing charges.

"Those who are willing to sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin

Freedom isn't free. It's a constant struggle to keep the layer upon layer of government encroachment upon our civil liberties at bay. First it's "foreign terrorists" who get tortured, then who's next? That's right. Do the math. Human rights are HUMAN rights. Once you start compromising those rights on some humans, it's only a matter of time before they start being compromised on all humans.

You want to live in a country where citizens can be indefinitely held with no charges or access to lawyers? You want to live in a country where someone labeled a "terrorist" can be tortured or held in communicado? Fine. You move to China.

Not me. Not in this country. This far, NO FARTHER.

[ForeverBlue]

The report said the prisoners include the alleged architect of the Sept. 11 attacks, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, as well as Abu Zubaydah, who is believed to be a close aide to Osama bin Laden.

I don't think these guys are US citizens. What would you like us to do, give them candy and ice cream if they are good little boys and tattle on their best buds?

I don't know where you live or how you were affected by 9/11. Unless you had to deal with it personally. Unless you spent weeks reading the list of people who died in the attack. Unless you find friends and former co-workers on that list. Unless you attended funerals as a result. Then and only then I will expect you to understand how me and most of NY feels. Truth is I have been dealing with it for three years now. ...and you want me to be understanding? Understand this, I will not forget and in this case I will not forgive. In fact I think that daily torture is a better fate for these people then death.

[awwchrist]

What's the moral of the story?

Don't get caught kids!

[no1cowboysfan]

11 Al-Qaida suspects "disappeared"? Should I cry? I wish more would vanish.
There were 12 people I personally knew that "disappeared" in the Twin Towers on 9/11.


Maybe the Human Rights Watch should put some pressure on those maniacs that are beheading hostages inside Iraq.
The United States has always been an advocate for human rights. The Human Rights Watch should visit the Sudan, or China or someplace else.

I had to chime in here. They do visit those places. The conditions there are abysmal. What's your point?

That somehow gives us, arguably the wealthiest, one of the largest, and definitely the most powerful and influential nation of all time the right to drop to their level? We're supposed to be above that. *WE* set the example. It's easy to hate a nation that tortures prisoners, it's hard to hate one that treats them humanely. The world is one big average equation, and we are--- correction, WERE--- at one time one of the highest numbers on that equation in terms of human rights and humane treatment of prisoners. We still are relatively high, but if we slide, we pull the whole average down, get it?

This is not the time of barbarism. This is the time of enlightened understanding. There will always --- always --- be people blowing up buildings. No doubt in my mind. Deal with it. I most certainly, intensely disagree (and thank god the Supreme Court is backing this opinion up) with the Bush Administrations absurd notion that they can somehow lock up a US citizen with no access to anyone, including an attorney, and hold them indefinitely w/o filing charges.

"Those who are willing to sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin

Freedom isn't free. It's a constant struggle to keep the layer upon layer of government encroachment upon our civil liberties at bay. First it's "foreign terrorists" who get tortured, then who's next? That's right. Do the math. Human rights are HUMAN rights. Once you start compromising those rights on some humans, it's only a matter of time before they start being compromised on all humans.

You want to live in a country where citizens can be indefinitely held with no charges or access to lawyers? You want to live in a country where someone labeled a "terrorist" can be tortured or held in communicado? Fine. You move to China.

Not me. Not in this country. This far, NO FARTHER.

I agree. I believe we all learned in kindergarten that "2 wrongs do not make a right."